Thread

decark: I am comfortable with any decision that has been made soundly, clearly, and openly. EllisLab chose OSL and Dan Horrigan picked MIT for FuelPHP. Those are fine choices and they both work for me.

As a contributor to CodeIgniter I do not feel like I have been screwed by this change, why would I? People contributed code to CodeIgniter to make it better, to fix bugs and to keep their applications working and selling legally. This license does not change anything for anyone who has been building and selling applications in the past.

In your article you yourself said you should have investigated GPL compatibility before you started building with CodeIgniter… well yes you certainly should! If you wish to distribute applications then understanding the license you are building on is pretty fundamental.

There are two arguments happening that are being rolled into one. Some are saying “OSL is bad” and some are saying “No GPL compatability” is bad. I don’t agree with the former and don’t care about the latter. I don’t use any GPL code because if I want to modify that library or update it I have to jump through hoops.

Is this the issue you are having? You want to use GPL code? Or you are just of the opinion that “OSL is bad”?

GPL is not “the savior of the internet”, it is a weird restrictive license that The PHP Group and Zend themselves do not like, so why give EllisLab so much hassle for not picking it either?

I don’t think the problem is that EL didn’t pick GPL for CI, but rather that people can’t pick GPL because of CI. Sure the old license didn’t entirely go well with GPL either, but now that this has been brought up to attention, people are realizing that CI doesn’t support GPL in any way or shape, which is why they may think of migrating away.
I wouldn’t pick GPL either for my framework or any other code for people to use, but OSL is a bit weird if you ask me. But then again, not my framework/product :]

I personally am not a fan of having to release my source code just because I’m doing a modification to the CI system for my project(s), but that’s another matter.

Hi Surgeon,

decark: I am comfortable with any decision that has been made soundly, clearly, and openly. EllisLab chose OSL and Dan Horrigan picked MIT for FuelPHP. Those are fine choices and they both work for me.

Sure it does because you are paid by EllisLab. I woudn’t bite the hand that feeds me either.

You want to use GPL code? Or you are just of the opinion that “OSL is bad”?

We just wanted to use our GPL code on top of CI, we are bound to the GPL (GPL compatibility is what we have been lobbying for all along, remember the uservoice). I did not care of it was BSD or MIT, or whatever, as long as it would have been compatible. And you have to admit: OSL for a _framework_ is more than unusual. Compared to all other PHP frameworks out there it is a surely a stand-alone “feature”.

Anway, alia iacta est - a decision was made. Let’s just rest this topic for good.

Hi Surgeon,

Call me Phil.

Sure it does because you are paid by EllisLab. I woudn’t bite the hand that feeds me either.

I am absolutely not paid by EllisLab and I never have been. I have this badge and my commit access because I cared enough about CodeIgniter to volunteer my time to the Reactor project, so now I am an Engineer. They have never paid me for anything. I make my own money selling my own products built on CodeIgniter, and building websites for clients under my company HappyNinjas.

Any decision I make is based on asking questions, research and understanding, I don’t just blindly follow what EllisLab say.

This is the exact reason I am not happy to agree with:

Anway, alia iacta est - a decision was made. Let’s just rest this topic for good.

If there is an actual issue I would like to see it resolved. 3.0 is not released so if EllisLab see a real reason for OSL being bad for them and for us then I would love to know it so I can present it to them and we can avoid more problems.

So far the “against” seems to boil down to:

1. People never knew CodeIgniter was not GPL compatable.
2. If we are changing a license, people would like it to be GPL compatible.
3. OSL is bad because it is not commonly used and has never been tested in court.

Anybody have anything to add to this?

1. People never knew CodeIgniter was not GPL compatable.
2. If we are changing a license, people would like it to be GPL compatible.
3. OSL is bad because it is not commonly used and has never been tested in court.

Anybody have anything to add to this?

Thank you for summing this up. That’s pretty much about it.

So far the “against” seems to boil down to:

1. People never knew CodeIgniter was not GPL compatable.
2. If we are changing a license, people would like it to be GPL compatible.
3. OSL is bad because it is not commonly used and has never been tested in court.

Anybody have anything to add to this?

You could add to the list:

4. Nobody wants to use OSL for her or his own code (everybody dislikes OSL).

4. Nobody wants to use OSL for her or his own code (everybody dislikes OSL).

Do you speak on behalf of the entire internet?

Please only express things that you know, or at least that you have reason to believe.

So lets just say for now that “You do not like OSL”. Why?

4. Nobody wants to use OSL for her or his own code (everybody dislikes OSL).

Do you speak on behalf of the entire internet?

Please only express things that you know, or at least that you have reason to believe.

So lets just say for now that “You do not like OSL”. Why?

I consider that a rhetoric question. Everybody who spoke about it says, that they dislike that OSL would stretch over their code. I read from it that they don’t want to use OSL for their code. Which shows that they dislike the OSL. Even EllisLab doesn’t want to use it for their products derived from CI. So it’s obvious: Almost nobody wants to use OSL.

What I don’t understand in this discussion:

the OSL license covers CodeIgniter. The scope of “Original Work” as described in the license is limited to the CodeIgniter code and derived work. Afaik this has nothing to do with your code.

It is perfectly fine to say that your code is licensed under the DBAD license, and requires the CodeIgniter framework version 3.0, licensed under OSL 3.0.

There is nothing to dislike, CI’s license is irrelevant when it comes to your license, and there is nothing that says that your app must be licensed using the same license as CI.

Calm down.

GPL is not “the savior of the internet”, it is a weird restrictive license that The PHP Group and Zend themselves do not like, so why give EllisLab so much hassle for not picking it either?

Of couse, there is no savior of internet.

I know you and EllisLab do not like GPL. Then why don’t you stop using GPLed software in your life? It is not good for your feeling with something you do not like, is it?

Everybody who spoke about it says, that they dislike that OSL would stretch over their code. I read from it that they don’t want to use OSL for their code. Which shows that they dislike the OSL. Even EllisLab doesn’t want to use it for their products derived from CI. So it’s obvious: Almost nobody wants to use OSL.

You are doing it again Mytosis, you are saying things about what “Everybody” want that are just not accurate. You are making assumptions about OSL and applying them to the “Everybody” that you speak about.

We were making progress before you guys started with the random derailing.

WanWizard points out a good point, CodeIgniter’s license and your application’s license should not need to be the same. OSL does not require this. Can anyone point to a specific chunk of text where it does?

Keep this topic accurate, provide links and be objective. “Everyone hates X” is not a fact and doesn’t help anyone.

So far the “against” seems to boil down to:

1. People never knew CodeIgniter was not GPL compatable.
2. If we are changing a license, people would like it to be GPL compatible.
3. OSL is bad because it is not commonly used and has never been tested in court.

Anybody have anything to add to this?

4. OSL is bad because we can’t use CI as before.

This is the most common opinion around me.

It includes that many people believed “CodeIgniter License” was compatible with GPL, “CodeIgniter License” is not copyleft, and OSL is too difficult to understand.

Short story (fiction but based on some facts):

Develper: CI’s license will change to OSL 3.0.
Boss: What’s OSL 3.0?
Develper: I don’t know well. It is a copyleft Open Source License which is unknown in this country.
Boss: Copyleft? Can you explain what it is, and all legal risks about it?
Developer: No.
Boss: We have no budget to consult a lawyer. Switch to other major licensed framework.

Good by, beloved CodeIgniter!

Did you consult a lawyer before choosing CI? Well you should have done.

Will you consult a lawyer before you pick your new framework? It wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Did you consult a lawyer before choosing CI? Well you should have done.

Will you consult a lawyer before you pick your new framework? It wouldn’t be a bad idea.

All CI users I know (including me) did not consult a lawyer.
If I did, the result is the same. Nobody knew CI would change the license.

Did you consult a lawyer before choosing CI? Well you should have done.

If we did, it would be different about GPL incompatibility problem.