Thread

Sounds like you’re just the type of person we want to hear from with the Usage/License survey next week. We’re in the midst of revamping the license in prep for 2.0 and we want to be more flexible for the growing types of scenarios people need a CMS for.

Looking forward to 😊

+1 I still like EE, but found 1.x license too restrictive for most of my projects. I thought 2.x would be released soon enough (1.5 yrs) that way I would know what the new license would be like (would it ship with 1.x license or less restrictive version of it as far as setting up a community oriented site goes)

Sounds like you’re just the type of person we want to hear from with the Usage/License survey next week. We’re in the midst of revamping the license in prep for 2.0 and we want to be more flexible for the growing types of scenarios people need a CMS for.

Do we know the selection criteria for this yet or is it public/members?

I would like to see clear cut diff. between personal and free versions whatever it may be. Just feels little odd to have to ‘contact sales’ for this type of decision…after all, it is sad that one can use a free version to ‘blog about their shoes’ but not to show their latest project/portfolio and drop in a ‘hire/contact me’ link. Less modules should be restrictive enough…no?
Thanks for listening.

Do we know the selection criteria for this yet or is it public/members?

The survey will be open to everyone, no selection criteria. We’ve been holding discussions on this in earnest every since SXSW 2009. The intention of the survey is to gather data and see how that matches up to the stories we’ve been collecting over the past several months.

I would like to see clear cut diff. between personal and free versions whatever it may be. Just feels little odd to have to ‘contact sales’ for this type of decision…after all, it is sad that one can use a free version to ‘blog about their shoes’ but not to show their latest project/portfolio and drop in a ‘hire/contact me’ link. Less modules should be restrictive enough…no?
Thanks for listening.

Yes, this is a noted dilemma along with terms such as “community” and “blog hosting”, words that were clear cut when we wrote the license years ago but no longer convey the spirit of the license the way we want it to, nor reflect how people want to use EE.

Just for example, several years ago people would want to use EE to start their own social network to compete with Facebook or MySpace. This would be bad for a lot of reasons. We still feel this way. But now people want to use EE to have communities that are influenced by the success of a couple big social networks but aren’t intended to be one themselves. They are content focused sites with mini-social networks around them as it were. Most of the time they aren’t asking for features, they just want to make sure they are okay within the license.

99% of the time they are, but the license feels restrictive in its current wording because the meanings of those words and the intended use has changed significantly and the license needs a revamp to reflect that. The end goal of this revamp is to open up EE to more uses, not restrict it. We hate the idea of being license police, so the more we move in a direction where we can pay the bills by reducing the “friction” of asking for license clarification, the better for everybody.

When we weren’t posting updates like this, people complained that we were too quiet.  We’ve explained numerous times in the blog posts that much of this time consuming process isn’t due to bringing something new to the table - it’s just work, normal software development.  But many still asked for updates at regular intervals.  The numerous positive comments in this thread lead me to believe that the people that were asking for this type of information are happy with what we can provide.  But we can’t manufacture ground shattering information on a two week schedule.  That’s simply not how software development works, that every two weeks on Tuesday some milestone will be met.

Derek, I can’t speak for anyone else but to me it’s not about the timing of the updates, it’s about the meat within the updates.  I will reiterate that as a customer I’m not interested in how the software comes about.  I’m interested in the software itself and how/if it can benefit my business that relies heavily on it.

No you can’t manufacture ground shattering info every two weeks and I personally have never expected that.  However you can offer a “spotlight” of sorts on a new feature or a new way we’ll need to do things.  Obviously pick what you want to show and only show the things you know will roll out with launch.  And of course always make the “subject to change before launch” disclaimer along with it. 😊

As an example I read that you or someone on the EllisLabs team told us 2.0 isn’t coming with a full ecommerce solution.  I was bummed when I read it but now I know and can plan on how your new product will impact my business.

So when you offer a 2.0 update that just discusses how you’re tweaking the control panel UI that 99% of us will never need to bother with

I’d just like to point out that the UI tweaking is far from trivial, and every single EE user will be impacted by the work the dev team is engaging in right now.

I certainly didn’t mean to downplay the importance of a good UI or your teams commitment to a good product if that’s how you took it.  I simply wanted to point out that if you’re that far along, surely some “meaty” features are a lock for launch and pointed out that you could share some of that with us.  Absolutely no harm intended.

In my case, I’m a new CodeIgniter user. (about 3 months) and I love it. and when I looked in to EE more and found out that EE2.0 was “coming out” I was excited! So I haven’t waited about 1.5 years like the others have but as a developer, I’ve decided to hold off on moving onto EE until 2.0 comes out.

Thanks Leslie and Derek for listening.

My point is similar to what svh1 is saying. Just give us something more, and that doesn’t mean mindblowing news every other week. Just post some screenshots or tell us about a new feature. Or why not a rough release date? I know dates could be a dangerous thing, but even you must have a deadline of some kind? Something more than “it’s done when it’s done”, would be great.

And why not skip the most detailed polishing for now, maybe postpone some features that’s not critical, and instead include it in a later update? Getting everything stable is important before release, I agree to that. But it’s not the end of the world if everything isn’t completely perfect. You should read “Getting real” by 37 Signals if you haven’t. It makes very good points regarding software development and other topics I’ve touched here.

I’d just like to point out that the UI tweaking is far from trivial, and every single EE user will be impacted by the work the dev team is engaging in right now.

Call me nuts, but even if EE 2.0 would only provide a polished UI, I would be perfectly happy. Right now it’s stable, it provides allmost (yes of course I do have a wishlist too) all the features I need, but I have to defend the scattered CP to many times against complaining users.

A more polished UI is one of the major goals in EE 2.0, as you can see in this preview video and “official” screenshots. Based on the screenshots and video it looks like the UI will be simpler and more intuitive.

That said, these are from March 2008, so who knows if this is what the UI looks like now. More up-to-date screenshots would help address some people’s questions about 2.0.

I completely understand the reluctance to set a release date, but it would be nice to have some concrete milestones of features and detailed updates as they’re developed.

I though I would chime in on this discussion because I really like EE.

Personally, I don’t care when 2.0 comes out.  Do it once do it right.  I’m sure it will be great, but 1.6.* is pretty darn good.  I’d say great given the cost.  I worked with some very expensive systems over the years that couldn’t do half of what EE can.

For me the deal breaker in some cases is the license agreement.  The web has changed, and so have client expectations for what a web site should be.  In many cases clients want to provide a mini-site or hosted services that are not just blogging services to their users.  These are often small bits of functionality that would enhance the user experience (Not Blogger alternatives), but in EE this is not allowed. 

Even worse, what if I develop a site that is initially within the terms of the EE license.  The client then decides 2-3 months down the road that he wants to add something that is against the EE license.  I have to tell him i can’t do it because of license restrictions of the solution I choose (EE),  and that we will need to develop from scratch on a new -or- possibly custom platform.  They would in my opinion be justifiably upset with my bad choice.

I am currently struggling with this very issue, and I find it odd that I am selecting (or not selecting) EE based on license restrictions, and not its technical capabilities. I read on one of the FAQ pages that this is a technical limitation, because EE wasn’t designed for this type of site.  But it seems to me that EE is very well suited to having heavily customized user specific pages (or mini-site) if you will.

Overall, I find the license to be vague - and open ended.  Enough so that to error on the side of caution for myself and a client would be not to use EE for any site that may need user specific content.  Which is to bad, because EE would often be a more cost effective solution.

I understand your need to protect your product, and position in the marketplace, but If it were my decision I would find a way to resolve this issue.

Just my 2 cents.

Hi bohara,

Please make sure to take the survey next week, feedback like this is very useful. Thanks for sharing!

What i think, is that these promised blog entries has been taking all wrong in most cases. Community and people think that EL-Team has promised to share detailed information, giving away some feature’s that comes etc. But after i have thought about this, i have came to a conclusion that i understood this all wrong in the first place.

These blog entries arent ment to be “Mind blowing news” about the 2.0 - they are ment just to tell that something is done and work is going well(or not). To tell that Beta is on its way and to tell some timelines what comes and when - IF everything goes as wanted.

I personally waited more from these blog entries but now i really don’t wait nothing. I come to pop in and read them when they are out without any hopes. EL-Team has come from “when it’s done it’s done” to point that we all really can read that they are working. I hated that when everyone answered to me with the above shortliner, that was poor way to answer to paying customer.

Now the idea is good. We get some details of the work, and yes, it’s still done when it’s done but now we all can read what there is still to do. What is the state of the Beta’s etc. That’s enough for me. I have more important work to do than wait for the exact ETA-blog entry or something. Ugh! Cultural difference is that in our country there is no “autopositive” type of acting in any forums nor companies support areas. Here I can see that a lot. I hate azzkissing so to speak, it gives nothing real to you, or does it
?

Will the changes to the license be of restricting nature in any cases?

- bjorn

I was waiting for that survey but i guess i read wrong…