Thread

Those of you who check in here may remember my recent angst over buying a laptop. I’m a Mac fanboy who tolerates his desktop PC, but prefers his 24"iMac. I recently got a new client and the need to have a windows laptop (for working onsite with their electronic medical records system).

Many of you weighed in on my basic dilemma: Choosing between the high upfront cost of a MacBook running VMware Fusion and Windows—or the lower upfront cost and inferior ownership experience of a Wintel laptop. I went MacBook.

Boy am I glad I did—in spite of the derision of the client’s IT Department. (It’s not their project and it’s not their money!) The 2.4GHz Macbook with 4GB RAM runs XP Pro like a beast. I think as a Windows laptop, it performs better than a Dell Inspiron—most likely because the latter is gummed up with crapware.

I do feel a tinge of guilt knowing that I could have bought an HP, a Toshiba, or a Dell for about half the price of my new beloved loaded Mac. But money truly can buy happiness sometimes. And if I am an idiot for having done this, at least I am a happy idiot! This MacBook rocks.

But money truly can buy happiness sometimes. And if I am an idiot for having done this, at least I am a happy idiot! This MacBook rocks.

I bought a MacBook recently and could not be happier. For the same money I could have bought five plastic netbooks, or three cheapie Dells, or two HPs with larger screens.

I bought the MacBook because (besides being an Apple fanboy) my last Mac notebook, an original 17” aluminum model, lasted nearly six years and I sold it for 1/3 the cost of a new one, half the price of the new MacBook.

There’s not a comparable Windows PC that has that kind of resale value, durability, security, etc. Go cheap, or go good. I chose good.

...if you don’t mind sharing what was the total cost?

Not sure of Alohashirt’s configuration, but the 2.4 GHz MacBook with 4 gigs RAM is about $1,700. The original 17” PowerBook was $2,499 back in early 2003. Amazon has Windows XP netbooks from about $300. Both HP and Dell have notebooks from about $450 on the low end to prices and configurations comparable to the MacBook line. Windows Vista Home Premium OEM can be purchased on Amazon for about $110 and runs as well on a Mac using OS X’s Boot Camp as it does on any comparable PC. In other words, the MacBook runs nearly all PC software (Windows, Linux, Mac OS), lasts longer, is more trouble free, and returns a higher resale value.

That is not bad at all…any windows oriented laptop (as desktop replacement) is not worth the time unless > $1,200.
I hope Mac people can stop pretending that they are using ‘mac hardware’ and make prices more reasonable. Would love to have one…without having to sell my kidney.

I hope Mac people can stop pretending that they are using ‘mac hardware’ and make prices more reasonable.

That implies that there is no difference between ‘Mac hardware’ and typical PC hardware, which is unlikely the case. Screens, keyboard, aluminum chassis, and more make a huge difference in durability, life span, usability. The key consideration is, ‘is that extra cost for more worth it to the buyer?’

The answer is, ‘yes’ to enough people to make Apple’s Mac line very profitable (probably more important than market share), yet growing rapidly. As to the hardware issue, I’d like to get a Lexus for the price of a lowly Kia, but it ain’t gonna happen.

Durability of the case is one thing, I am talking about components memory,boards, hard drives, video cards…Point being, please let me install your lovely OS on the machine that I can put together on the hardware of choice and superior to what is ‘prepackaged’...oh and save a $1000.
Sure typical HP or Toshiba at BestBuy are not ‘great’ hardware…
After all, they are in bed with Intel so what is the deal?

As to the hardware issue, I’d like to get a Lexus for the price of a lowly Kia, but it ain’t gonna happen.

That is fine…but how would you feel about paying for Lexus when knowing that transmission is the same as in Kia?

Seems like they learned from B. Gates….only their approach is if we can’t get the customers in volumes so we will peal the skin of those that we can.

Again, this is not attack on you mac-fan-boys as much as pricing model of the company. Any time I use Mac I get impressed and depressed for these reasons.
The best thing that happened to Mac was release of Vista….I just hope it lowers the price tag a bit more. It already has over last few yrs.

Durability of the case is one thing, I am talking about components memory,boards, hard drives, video cards…

It’s math. Better, faster, quality components cost more. Cheapie PCs have slower system bus, slower RAM, crummy video graphics, lower quality screens, slower CPUs, plastic cases, etc. Apple chooses not to put OS X on less expensive, lower quality components.

Point being, please let me install your lovely OS on the machine that I can put together on the hardware of choice and superior to what is ‘prepackaged’...oh and save a $1000.

Legally, that won’t happen, either. Again, it’s math. Back when Apple allowed clones you could buy a Mac-clone with more hardware features, Mac OS, and a much lower price than Apple put on a Mac. The idea was to have the clones grow market share. Instead, the clone market cut deeply into Apple’s Mac sales. So, instead of bringing in say, $1,700 in revenue for a Mac sale, Apple got maybe $50 to $100 for selling OS X to the clone makers. It was math. Apple was bleeding itself dry.

Besides, is running OS X on custom hardware still a Mac?

Sure typical HP or Toshiba at BestBuy are not ‘great’ hardware…
After all, they are in bed with Intel so what is the deal?

I’m not sure I found an argument there. HP, Toshiba, and others do have good hardware in their line. But you pay more for it, diminishing the price difference between such a PC and a comparable Mac.

As to Intel, it’s still math. The least expensive PCs don’t sport Core 2 Duo CPUs. One of the best decisions Apple has made in many years was the switch to Intel. It leveled a big chunk of the playing field and ensured long-term CPU viability.

As to the hardware issue, I’d like to get a Lexus for the price of a lowly Kia, but it ain’t gonna happen.

That is fine…but how would you feel about paying for Lexus when knowing that transmission is the same as in Kia?

Which is the point. The transmission in a Kia is not the same as in a Lexus. Piece for piece, Mac prices and PCs prices are similar. But that’s not the whole package. Most buyers don’t buy strictly for hardware. They buy for what the hardware does, and, in the case of Macs, the package does far more than PCs. After all, Macs not only run all Mac software, they also run all Windows software, all Linux software, and can do it all at the same time.

Seems like they learned from B. Gates….only their approach is if we can’t get the customers in volumes so we will peal the skin of those that we can.

Microsoft doesn’t sell PCs. Apple doesn’t sell an operating system for typical PC hardware, so it’s not much of an apples to Apple comparison.

One thing that has to be understood is that Apple is a for-profit company with a penchant for designing and building quality products that people want. Microsoft is also for profit but doesn’t have the same result as Apple when it comes to customer loyalty. And it ain’t Kool-Aid that makes it happen.

BMW owners love their cars. Ditto for Lexus and other premium brands. There’s more there than just the price tag, no?

Any time I use Mac I get impressed and depressed for these reasons.

I just use my Macs and enjoy them all. My Windows PC friends tend to grumble about their PCs quite often. But they’re happy that they paid less than a Mac. But they grumble and I’m happy…

The best thing that happened to Mac was release of Vista….I just hope it lowers the price tag a bit more. It already has over last few yrs.

I’m more convinced that Steve Ballmer is the best thing to happen to Apple in recent years. But in all seriousness, Apple has done a lot of things right in the past seven years and it is paying off handsomely. The current line of Macs are the best ever. The iPod rules the portable music player market. The iPhone is the darling of the smart phone crowd. And iTunes Store makes it difficult for hardware or software competitors to match the whole Apple ecosystem of hardware, software, and user experience.

Apple’s pricing is pretty clear on their site, and I got the standard 2.4GHz MacBook with 4GB RAM. Sticker price for this configuration is about $1,700 plus tax.

My last Mac laptop, a Powerbook G4, is more than five years old and still going strong. It’s about to make my teenage daughter very happy. I’ve always found it a joy to use—so it’s no surprise that the new MacBook is great when running the Mac OS. But what is a surprise, at least to me, is how well it runs Windows. It’s a better Wintel laptop than the average Dell, HP, or Toshiba.

I am working on a project that involves heavy use of a Windows-only maximum-security electronic medical records (EMR) system. Much to the amazement of the IT guys who deal with this EMR system, performance is actually better on my MacBook running XP Pro than it is on some of their Dell Vostros and Latitudes.

I don’t know much about component-for-component comparisons. But I am very happy with the decision. I had a bit of guilt and buyer’s remorse as they swiped my credit card for the purchase. But that faded within an hour of the time I started working with it at the client’s site.

$1,700 plus tax is not bad at all and worth considering.
My IBM thinkpad is 3 yrs old and nothing wrong with either it because I have put it together without anyone limiting me what component to put in…and don’t f-it up like most users exposed to spyware/viruses written specifically for win OS.

There’s more there than just the price tag, no?

Oh Absolutely…and that is why you pay for it, it is not ‘better/faster’ hardware. But in my case, I don’t need the pampering and the ‘vip’ support and little apple sticker to put on my car nor the ‘lexus’ dealership treatment…just give me raw OS fuel. Is that too much to ask? 😊

I had a bit of guilt and buyer’s remorse as they swiped my credit card for the purchase.

You don’t even know how many times I stood there contemplating…staring…and walking away. Granted prices were $2,500 and up at the time…which is why $1,700 doesn’t sound too bad but $900 would sound even better.
Damn you all…now I got the Mac bug again!

$1,700 plus tax is not bad at all and worth considering.

Apple seems to be selling plenty of them at those prices. Perhaps people recognize that quality and value have a place.

My IBM thinkpad is 3 yrs old and nothing wrong with either it because I have put it together without anyone limiting me what component to put in…and don’t f-it up like most users exposed to spyware/viruses written specifically for win OS.

I had to laugh at some of the recent Microsoft TV commercials which poke Apple. Giampaolo says he’s tech savvy who wants 1) power, 2) battery life, 3) portability. So he spent Microsoft’s $1,500 and got less power, less battery life, and less portability than a low end MacBook for less money.

How much personal customization can a person do on a notebook? RAM, hard drive…?

.and that is why you pay for it, it is not ‘better/faster’ hardware. But in my case, I don’t need the pampering and the ‘vip’ support and little apple sticker to put on my car nor the ‘lexus’ dealership treatment…just give me raw OS fuel. Is that too much to ask?]

I think the point is that you get “better/faster hardware” and you pay more for it, Mac or PC. If you custom build, you can drop that price somewhat, but that’s the tiny minority of computer buyer. How does one build a better faster notebook?

You don’t even know how many times I stood there contemplating…staring…and walking away. Granted prices were $2,500 and up at the time…which is why $1,700 doesn’t sound too bad but $900 would sound even better. Damn you all…now I got the Mac bug again!

Check out the white MacBook. $999. Mostly the same everything as the aluminum model sans the aluminum (smaller drive, but with Firewire).

I was disappointed that Firewire was dropped from the aluminum MacBook models, but don’t miss it at all. All my newer cameras use USB, the MacBook will boot up just fine on a USB drive, and Firewire Target Mode is negated with an ethernet cable.

How does one build a better faster notebook?

Fortunately, (sometimes not so) I am not just an end user and have this option directly though Dell or IBM so I can order parts to be put in for me…even if the print is not for sale…anyhow, lets move to the ‘white stuff’.

Any of the new Mac models come with HDMI port? Any choices out there for docking? I would be interested into ‘desktop replacement’ with at least 15inch portability.
Looking at the price tags they are still $2,500+ ...so any outlets that have better pricing?
By the way, grumps you will totally be responsible for my impulsive buy.
Thanks!

By the way, grumps you will totally be responsible for my impulsive buy.

Which is fine until you ask for my credit card number.

So far as I know, no HDMI ports on Macs (not enough folks who know how to spell HDMI, let alone use it in anything but a wide screen TV and DVD player, I guess). Docking? It might be one or two decades since a Mac had a dock (if ever). The new iMacs have DisplayPort which is a perfect glove fit with the new Apple LED Cinema Display, negating the need for a dock. By the way, do NOT stop at an Apple Store and spend time with a MacBook attached to that LED display. You’ve been warned. I will say I told you so.

I’m not much on desktop replacement machines. Once you get hooked on 24-inches of rich, vibrant, almost Kodachrome-like screens, anything less is just, well, less. That’s what makes the Apple LED display pretty sweet even with the smaller MacBook’s 13-inch display.

I keep email and documents synced between my big screen Mac and the MacBook so portability is just a click away. It’s difficult not to like that big 17-inch MacBook Pro display, and the 15-incher is sweet, but after lugging the original 17-inch PowerBook all around the continental US and Europe and back home again more than a few times over the years, portability wins the feature race.

One more thing, I was initially skeptical of the huge track pad in the new MacBooks. After one day of use I’m a big fan. I no longer use the thumb to click. That’s right. No clicking. It’s a simple tap or double tap (or tap and hold) instead. No clicks with the thumb. Sweet. Add that to MagSafe, easy hard drive replacement, remarkable graphics, great screen, SuperDrive, ultra quiet… Did I fail to mention the software?

But you’ve been warned.

Now .. after spending much time playing around with the new Windows 7 ...

(which, to me, leaves Vista floundering and XP panting very hard .. )

...the new Windows 7

I’ve heard good things about that but under a different name. I think it was Windows Vista Service Pack 2.

😛