Thread

Now I appreciate that some of those answers could be very good, but it doesn’t seem a very efficient use of their time or yours.

On the contrary - in many cases it’s actually way more efficient than Google.  The answer might not come back in a nano-second, but if I do get answers they are vetted/recommendations based on use rather than search results based on SEO, Keywords, and marketing.

Actually, I can’t imagine a better search engine for the web—you ask a question and people you know give you personal recommendations.

Actually, I can’t imagine a better search engine for the web—you ask a question and people you know give you personal recommendations.

It’s difficult to disagree with that, of course. Ask a question, get an answer. It’s like the Forums of Life™. On the other hand, there are plenty of issues in that sequence, too, including the aforementioned…

...I appreciate that some of those answers could be very good, but it doesn’t seem a very efficient use of their time or yours. It must take up time for people to read all your tweets, most of which may not be relevant to them.

I’ve stopped responding to tweet search-like questions because so much of what happens on Twitter is superfluous and bordering on the inane. It’s interesting at times, yes, but not exactly efficient, even when subject matter (and, to a degree, followers) is more than interesting. Alex set up Mac360 on Twitter a couple of weeks ago and she has almost 200 followers, so the audience total doesn’t equal but about a half hour of visitors to the site. Lots of effort, little gain.

I think we’re still trying to figure out the answer to the questions, “Why?” and “Why bother?”

Alex set up Mac360 on Twitter a couple of weeks ago and she has almost 200 followers, so the audience total doesn’t equal but about a half hour of visitors to the site. Lots of effort, little gain.

You expect results too quickly, methinks.  How long did it take to build that level of traffic to your site?

Like with any online community, what you get out kinda equals what you put in.  If you aren’t spending time on Twitter helping other folks and carrying your end of the “social networking” part then you can’t expect results when you are the one doing the asking.

I’d say I’m just now, after starting to use Twitter around this time last year, seeing good results from it.  As in, I start work on a project this week that came about entirely via Twitter.  So for me, that’s the answer to why bother?  It’s also become a source for community (important for us work-alone types) and links to web development resources (like a nice lightbox script that I didn’t know I needed).

Efficient?  Tough to say.  I know I’ve spent time in local face to face business networking groups that, after a year, produced no results whatsoever.

You expect results too quickly, methinks.  How long did it take to build that level of traffic to your site?

Therein is part of the list of problems (or, considerations about the viability of one vs. the other). The site’s traffic was easier and faster to build and with more benefit, though it’s nothing more than a commercially successful collaborative hobby for friends.

Like with any online community, what you get out kinda equals what you put in.  If you aren’t spending time on Twitter helping other folks and carrying your end of the “social networking” part then you can’t expect results when you are the one doing the asking.

What would be the “results?” More tweets? More interesting tweets? Responding to tweets? Querying the followers? More followers? For what purpose? Fun? Pleasure? Work?

I’m not being snarky here. I’m serious about trying to determine the value of Twitter beyond curiosity. Right now it’s nebulous.

I’d say I’m just now, after starting to use Twitter around this time last year, seeing good results from it.  As in, I start work on a project this week that came about entirely via Twitter.  So for me, that’s the answer to why bother?  It’s also become a source for community (important for us work-alone types) and links to web development resources (like a nice lightbox script that I didn’t know I needed).

Is this use of Twitter revolutionary, evolutionary, or merely another way of doing the same thing (forums, Googling, et al)?

Efficient?  Tough to say.  I know I’ve spent time in local face to face business networking groups that, after a year, produced no results whatsoever.

I hear you. Been there, too. That’s probably a different issue, though.

What I do see is the potential to build a personal following related to any of a number of items; personality, common cause, similar interests, similar professions, etc. Once the following is large enough then relationships develop, grow, flourish, and it’s done one by one. The value then becomes the relationships and Twittering is what gets it started and keeps it going.

How’s that for an observation?

I to am interested in determining the value of Twitter and leaning how to improve my use of the web.

Michael, if you had a question about EE would you tweet it or post on this forum?

I find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t get a wider/better response from this forum.

If I started tweeting I am sure I wouldn’t be in the list of people you are following, so you wouldn’t see my question and I wouldn’t get an answer.

So is the risk that more people stay within their circle of “friends” and don’t participate in the wider web?

Michael, if you had a question about EE would you tweet it or post on this forum?

These days?  Usually on twitter - because I’m lucky to be part of a great core of skilled EE folks that communicate via twitter.

Unless I thought it was something requiring formal tech support, or a FR.

I find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t get a wider/better response from this forum.

For me and the types of questions I’d have I think it’d either be a wash or you’d be wrong.  I also predict I’d get a faster response on Twitter.

If I started tweeting I am sure I wouldn’t be in the list of people you are following, so you wouldn’t see my question and I wouldn’t get an answer.

Even if I’m not following you I’d probably still see your question.  I’ve setup saved Twitter searches that spit out RSS feeds, so I see all posts (eventually) that contain EE, Train-ee, or Boyink keywords.

So is the risk that more people stay within their circle of “friends” and don’t participate in the wider web?

I can’t see where Twitter has changed that - we’ve always had tools to help winnow down the wider web to a more manageable experience.  Email, IM, Forums - in that respect Twitter is more of the same. 

But you can also expand your web on twitter - so I’d say that really isn’t a risk at all.

So is the risk that more people stay within their circle of “friends” and don’t participate in the wider web?

I suspect it will end up being some of both, though I sense that a measure of dilution sets in. More things, more places to keep track of in an already overcrowded information medium.

These days?  Usually on twitter - because I’m lucky to be part of a great core of skilled EE folks that communicate via twitter.

I have no major issue with that, other than it might be worthwhile for EE to be on Twitter, but I can’t help but think that the EE Forums then become diluted as a larger part of the membership does not have access to the twittered questions or responses.

Again, some fragmentation, or dilution of effort begins to take effect here, and it’s not as if the web isn’t fragmented already. It’s becoming more and more difficult (or, more of an effort) to find relevant information on the web. Google is becoming too generalized and loaded with crummy, outdated links.

“Community network” is a buzzword these days, but it’s nothing new, and has been around as long as humankind, probably somewhere right after the first families spread out on the planet. The methodology of contacting, using, interacting within community networks has changed along with the technology.

other than it might be worthwhile for EE to be on Twitter

You mean like:

http://twitter.com/ellislab

?  😉

Les, Lisa, Derek Allard, Greg, Pascal are all on twitter as well.

You mean like:

http://twitter.com/ellislab.

Yep. And it’s hard to find much value there without scanning the whole thing, every day, all the time.

Whew!

I’m not convinced that twitter is going to dilute anything.  Assuming that all EE help happened, pre-Twitter, in the context of these forums is overlooking the fact that many people got help through emailing and IM’ing people within their existing contact network.

People will go where they think they’ll get the best quality and fastest response to their questions.  No sense lamenting that - better to embrace it.

Twitter history is searcheable…

And there are Twitter clients that can help you work with the content…or just grab the RSS feed from twitter and plug it into your existing RSS aggregator.

You don’t read/scan the EE blog everyday I assume?

I’m not convinced that twitter is going to dilute anything.

Since it’s something new and doesn’t fully replace any other method for communicating, it must, by the nature of a 24-hour day, dilute. Twitter for 15-minutes a day and that’s 15-minutes less than something else. It’s math.

That said, in the right circumstances and usage, it could be an efficient 15 minutes, negating the less efficient time spent communicating in another way, hence a measure of value.

I’m just still struggling with the value aspect.

Assuming that all EE help happened, pre-Twitter, in the context of these forums is overlooking the fact that many people got help through emailing and IM’ing people within their existing contact network.

Certainly true, that. Adding Twitter spreads the contact, of course, but implies a dilution of time. What happens when Twitter has two or three inevitable competitors with a substantial number of users? More dilution.

People will go where they think they’ll get the best quality and fastest response to their questions.  No sense lamenting that - better to embrace it.

Totally agreed, though I find myself not so willing to embrace every new way to do this or that without sufficiently compelling reasons. Twitter is interesting, yes, sometimes useful, but I haven’t seen the compelling reason(s) to embrace it wholeheartedly.

You don’t read/scan the EE blog everyday I assume?

No. Forums more so than the EE blog, of course. Modern technology gives me more ways to do what I do but the same number of hours each day.

I’m not convinced that twitter is going to dilute anything.  Assuming that all EE help happened, pre-Twitter, in the context of these forums is overlooking the fact that many people got help through emailing and IM’ing people within their existing contact network.

I don’t have any friends using EE to email for help, so I have always relied on these forums for help & advice.

You don’t read/scan the EE blog everyday I assume

No I scan the main forums, Lounge, General discussion & How-to most days. If I can help others I try, but most of the time I am learning from other peoples questions and the answers.

The difference is that you are higher up the foodchain and have many people below you or equal, whilst I am nearer the bottom and reliant on the people above me for help.

The difference is that you are higher up the foodchain and have many people below you or equal, whilst I am nearer the bottom and reliant on the people above me for help.

Either way, higher or lower, it’s still a lunch on the food chain.

😉

Just posting something here I came across just now that pertained to the general discussion of social media, portable data, and the future of the social web -

Tapping the Portable Social Graphs

http://adage.com/digitalnext/article?article_id=135067

Social media is in an evolution phase and Facebook Connect, along with Myspace Data Availability, Google Friend Connect, OpenId and OAuth are playing a central role in what it will become. These frameworks are working to automatically allow the transfer of data from one site to another, providing both instant access to our friend networks and a singular personal identity anywhere we go on the internet.

Essentially, they serve as portable social graphs, creating a unified “plumbing system” that allows access to our social networks beyond the walls of an individual website, mobile application or IPTV extension. No more painful registrations. No more starting from scratch with each new social networking site or branded social experience.

This opens up a new world of interesting possibilities for brands. It also creates yet another drastic drop in the technical barriers to creating social activity around particular brands or services. In many cases, it alleviates the need for brands to create their own social networks from scratch. Brand loyalists and advocates can simply extend a virtual bridge to a website or experience and invite friends to cross it. However, before brands jump on the social-media bandwagon, there are many considerations that should be weighed. The real question to ask is: How can a brand use social-media tools to provide increased value to its customers?

For instance, creating a presence on Twitter might be a good first step, but what does your brand have to offer that is worth Tweeting? Can you save people money or help someone find a job? Can you make people laugh? Jumping into social media without a clear strategy often devolves into a collection of quick tactics that may not be right for the brand or, more importantly, the consumer.

Instead, marketers should listen and look for opportunities to solve problems. Zappos, an often used example of exceptional customer service, is known to proactively identify and support their customers via Twitter. Consider what sorts of social activity customers would engage in if the barrier to entry was low enough. Experiment and learn. Earn the ear of customers. Then, give them something worth listening to.

And in this case it’s quickly becoming clear that FB is a better tool for the job than my EE site has been.

I hear you. FB has a feature set that is impressive. And it’s tough to compete against free. Why bother to build your own when an attractive, relevant, feature laden site (highly competitive with EE’s features) can be points and clicks away, AND integrate seamlessly with others within your community (whatever that is)? How does EE compete effectively against that?

I’m not certain needs to compete with that. My thoughts are this, data fragmentation is the norm. Between Twitter, Facebook, Delicious, Disqus, FriendFeed, and so many others. The people you want and the information you’ve generated is elsewhere. But it’s still a fragmented experience, and while that’s satisfactory for a number of my interests, it’s not for all of them. For the things that I’m insanely interested in, I’m looking for sites that are truly worthwhile to keep up with. Site’s that manage to recombine or reconstitute the fragmented data and create an experience for me are few and far between, but worthwhile. Sites that manage to create original data with challenging ideas are worthwhile to me as well.

Our new website is almost entirely about aggregation. It’s in beta now. It’s bringing in data from Twitter, sending data to Facebook (because FB sucks for getting data out of), pulling data from Delicious, Ma.gnolia, Stumbled Upon, SlideShare, Scribd, YouTube, and a host of other sites. Why do we expect you to come to our site; because your day’s busy, your focus is fragmented, and you need information you can trust. You don’t want to learn about us, at least not in the normal sense. You want someone who will take your 150 resources/links about social networks and reduce it to 10 top items that you can reference, and maybe further more 1-3 posts that you can rapidly scan. And that’s what we’re using Expression Engine (and a host of add-ons) for. FeedGrab, XMLGrab, Importer, Tags, Ratings, and more. We create new content as well, but not nearly as rapidly.

There’s always a market for new content, and people don’t really create content on Facebook or Twitter; they create references or pointers to content created elsewhere. So the social provides a somewhat trusted and very rapid access to information/content but you still need the content and that’s where EE sites come in.

We don’t expect you to be social with us, and if you want to be, there’s mailing lists, and Ning! groups that mirror our real world groups