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You might want to check out this screencast.

That’s what got me to check out the 960 framework. I’m still dinking.

Wild question: how many of you runs sites with all these common CMS-systems? I have been thinking that i install all of those just to follow “what’s what”...

Did you see the site
http://php.opensourcecms.com/

Might be better then going through the pain of installing all these CMS systems. Then again the real agony is in the (lack of) support when your server does not handle the CMS very well, and all other disasters that I’ve had using overloaded systems like Mambo or Gallery2.

I did run Mambo, Joomla and still have one Wordpress site. It took me some time to get a good idea of all of these systems before I switched to just EE.

My advice would be to try them out one by one if you want to. The main trouble I’ve had was not in the installation or setup, but the regular use, when you start depending on the software and of all a sudden it just let’s you down… 😖

Wild question: how many of you runs sites with all these common CMS-systems? I have been thinking that i install all of those just to follow “what’s what”...

When I was starting the cms road I tried about 40 or so of these. Some of the better ones numerous times. One can do this if wanted, if you have an enormous amount of time. I know I have spent an unknown but ridiculous number of hours trying various ones over the last 5-7 years.

I still have a number of mt sites, a Wordpress install, and a joomla one but the last 2 was only checking on advancements. I do nothing with them as once I seen they were “same old…” that was it.

None have the flexibility of EE. Wordpress does a little on a basic level, but is of course limited to simple sites.
MovableType was my main one for over three years as it has the flexibility somewhat like EE.

The others are ok as long as site changes fit in with the default and/or plugins, so as long as the site requirements are basic enough to be done with the program, one is ok…until down the road more is wanted then they often do not fit.

EE is not only future proof, it is the only one with the flexibility to not get tossed in favor of the “next great cms”.

Open source and/or free is meaningless unless ones time is worth nothing. If there was no EE, I would be hacking MovableType. Which I still do a lot of, but in my spare time (whatever that is)

Yeah, forget to tell that i’m thinking only Joomla!, WP and from forums phpbb.

Wild question: how many of you runs sites with all these common CMS-systems?

I’ve put up sites using all the major players—WordPress (love the new control panel), Joomla (movable modules are fun), Drupal (where geeks and confusion rule), TextPattern (sleepy place, not much going on), and others. For forums, everything from vBulletin (wonderfully complex) to Invision to phpBB, and a few others that really, really, require a lot of support.

Speaking of support, that’s one area where EE shines bright. Responses to problems, questions, issues, bugs, etc., are usually quick on EE’s forums, whether from staff or users. Support in the open source community is spotty at best. A problem might get a response within hours and it might get a response within days, or sometimes weeks, and too often there’s no response. The rapidity of the response seems in inverse proportion to the serious need for an immediate solution, though.

I like the one click theme/template installation of WP and Joomla (actually, a few clicks, but who counts?). For basic sites which need little customization, must go up in a hurry, and are on a highly limited budget, they’re fine. Troublesome afterwards, considering the lack of cash cost (time cost is another issue).

For serious sites, commercial sites, sites with a development budget, and for sites which intend to be around awhile, EE wins the day, hands down, no contest, a shutout. Why? All the basic reasons: support response, security, dependability, performance, flexibility, control. The “light bulb” moment rules.

noregt: My advice would be to try them out one by one if you want to. The main trouble I’ve had was not in the installation or setup, but the regular use, when you start depending on the software and of all a sudden it just let’s you down…

Exactly my problem with WP and Drupal (the ones I’ve played with the most). Although I couldn’t even get to the usage stage with Drupal…but WP, I’ve used incessantly for numerous projects including my own blog, and I just got tired of being wired into it and not being able to add features I really wanted, but there was no plugin for.

Bruce2005: Open source and/or free is meaningless unless ones time is worth nothing.

Thank you! That is exactly it. I have been arguing with OS addicts for ages, and that one sentence sums it up. Mind if I steal that the next time my Drupal friends get all annoyingly superior? LOL

Ronnie: Support in the open source community is spotty at best. A problem might get a response within hours and it might get a response within days, or sometimes weeks, and too often there’s no response. The rapidity of the response seems in inverse proportion to the serious need for an immediate solution, though.

Yup, that’s what I’ve been saying for years now, and it’s very much my experience.

Plus, I can add to that that the plugin support FROM the community seems better supported, kept up with the updates in the core software, etc, whereas I’ve seen the best and most useful plugins on WP die a horrible, ugly death due to the developer moving on. Because these people are working for free, and not often using WP for paying commercial clients like EE developers do, they tend to drift off and stop developing. Then it’s up to someone else to run with said enhancement, but often they don’t, or THEY abandon it, and that’s that. Makes updating a WP install a crap shoot, in regards to your favorite plugins.

Here, I’ve yet to run into a fabulous useful ext or plugin not being updated by someone. And I’ll pay $30 for a good extension, dammit.

RE 960 framework, hadn’t heard of it, but it looks interesting, thanks.

Bruce2005: Open source and/or free is meaningless unless ones time is worth nothing.

Thank you! That is exactly it. I have been arguing with OS addicts for ages, and that one sentence sums it up. Mind if I steal that the next time my Drupal friends get all annoyingly superior? LOL

lol, steal away! I will add to that the fact, the EE forums is a perfect example,
of the higher level of support.

Now open source have a lot of terrific people that give freely of their time helping others, but there is no comparison. My experiences over the years have been negative on open source support. As said above.

Just visited the OpenCMS web site to see what was new. My gawd, what a huge list of CMS projects. Dozens and dozens. How can a commercial CMS compete against an onslaught of free open source projects? Probably the same way that Apple seems to compete in a land of giants. Better stuff?

I found a few that appeared interesting. Concrete5 looks competitive. Seems like a lot of attention on the “road map” vs. attention to the current list of features. Typo3 has always been a CMS I thought had promise. I assume the Typo3 site uses Typo3 which, based on the inability to look any better than WP 1.5, prevents me from using Typo3. e107 seems to get some buzz in the CMS community. I usually don’t buzz for releases like 0.7. Those zeroes up front bother me. MODX CMS also gets high marks from some adherents (it’s 100% buzzword compliant), but the web site, presumably using MODX, wouldn’t load all morning.

And so it goes…

quote]How can a commercial CMS compete against an onslaught of free open source projects? [/quote]

Extremely easily. They are all similar…limited and inconfigurable, and the front end wrapped around the core programming.
I used to call them “all Nuke look alikes” and a waste of time.

I just started using EE (built one site with it so far) and I am quite amazed by it. The developers really have done a fantastic job. I quite like it and I can see a lot of possibilities with it actually. It’s not perfect, but I don’t have many complaints. It really took me no time at all to figure out the basics of EE and I think I had my light bulb moment after about an hour working with it (I used TrainEE… great tutorials on there). The flexibility of it really stands out…. which is also kind of scary, because it is a “blank page” so to speak.

There is definitely a learning curve, but nothing too major… I also know I’ve made a few mistakes with this first site, but it is working quite well nevertheless. I agree that, for the most part, if something isn’t working in EE it’s probably because I did something wrong or missed something.

I think a good, solid template for EE would be useful in teaching new users best practices (like how to structure the site, using hidden templates, conditionals, embeds, performance tweaks, etc). I found this is where I made most of my mistakes. I’m looking forward to 2.0 and the sample site. For me, having a good solid example to help me out with best practices would be ideal and likely save me lots of time/effort.

Before trying EE I downloaded and installed quite a few of the open source packages. I was frustrated quite quickly with Drupal. Disorganized, too many third party additions, just plain bad in general. I knew that would be a HUGE time investment. Joomla was similar… and Mambo was truly horrible (probably why some of the developers branched out to Joomla)! It’s like most of those systems have grown way to big and they seem like they’ll soon implode. Didn’t try WP, so I can’t comment. I liked ModX the best out of all the open source I tried, but it is quite new. I didn’t delve into it too deeply because I found EE at around the same time and decided to go with it.

I think a good, solid template for EE would be useful in teaching new users best practices (like how to structure the site, using hidden templates, conditionals, embeds, performance tweaks, etc). I found this is where I made most of my mistakes. I’m looking forward to 2.0 and the sample site. For me, having a good solid example to help me out with best practices would be ideal and likely save me lots of time/effort

Well said. I would like to see a comprehensive, attractive, best-practices layout/template for EE.

I plan to give EESiteKit a try. I’m not sure if it is quite what I’m thinking of, but it looks like an interesting new addition to EE and will likely save some time on sites that can fit it’s structure. Anyway, it’s a good direction that they’ve gone in because it isn’t one size fits all… It looks as though it can still be customized to a certain extent.

I plan to give EESiteKit a try.

Right now I’m playing around with it. eeSiteKit will not style your site, but definitely helps in building the inner structure according to your needs. Based on a given navigational structure, eeSiteKit will give you a clear concept on how to setup your template groups, weblogs, categories, fields and so on. You’ll get a working navigation, search, site map ... even tell-a-friend forms - and you can focus on getting your content done. And you aren’t limited to your first concept, but can extend the content at any time and the navigational structure and even the menu will follow. However, applying a template is up to you (but its a straightforward process).

It seems, even advanced EE users might learn from eeSiteKit how companies like NetRaising are able to roll out site after site with EE extremly fast and consistent. But of course if someone is looking for a great demo site or a brilliant template, eeSiteKit isn’t the best solution.

Just my $0.02
Markus

Based on a given navigational structure, eeSiteKit will give you a clear concept on how to setup your template groups, weblogs, categories, fields and so on. You’ll get a working navigation, search, site map ... even tell-a-friend forms - and you can focus on getting your content done. And you aren’t limited to your first concept, but can extend the content at any time and the navigational structure and even the menu will follow. However, applying a template is up to you (but its a straightforward process).

For newbies that can be a big help since EE starts with such a clean white board, and only goes where the user takes it. I’m concerned about the non-standard, non-approved, non-supported way that eeSiteKit handles nested URI’s. What happens when EE 2.0x hits the streets?