Thread

Let me put it this way: Every CMS has a slightly different way of doing things. EE’s approach is article based, other programs use a page based approch. Neither approach “sucks”, they are just different. I feel that if you consider one approach clearly superior to the other, your choice of software should reflect that conviction.

I agree. Every approach has it’s strengths and weaknesses, EE’s weakness is it’s visual content management facilities. I believe this criticism is constructive.

They do it differently. I cannot speak for others, but I for one clearly prefer EE’s approach. There are numerous ways of implementing a menu structure of sorts, by the way (most people use categories, but that is only one way of doing it). Having said that, the page module is a fairly recent addition to EE, and there is clearly room for improvment. You probably should take your suggestions to the feature request forum, though, where they will actually be read by the developpers, and not to the “General Discussion” forum which is not officially monitored by EL employees. Thank you.

There are two types of users, developers and the rest. While developers feel incredibly comfortable with EE’s content editing interface, non developers aren’t. Other cms systems are structured around usability for non developers. The pages module is a good step forward, but it falls short. Why not make it easy for the client? As with the addition of a WYSIWYG editor, you either use it or you don’t. But if it’s there then you have a choice and that is the type of flexibility we need in the EE backend.

I appreciate your comments Ingmar.

There are two types of users, developers and the rest. While developers feel incredibly comfortable with EE’s content editing interface, non developers aren’t.

Yes, that might very well be the case. But EE never was an “install, drop in a few templates and you’re ready to go” kind of system. It could be used that way, but it was (and is) always somewhat more geared towards developers.

Why not make it easy for the client?

Please take note that this is my personal opinion, and not an official EL statement, but I think that there can be no “one size fits all” approach. Ultimately, only the developer(s) “out in the field” will know what his users need. EE gives you the toolset needed to achieve that, but does not force a solution down your throat. EE is probably most powerful when considered a framework of sorts, and not a turnkey solution.

Of course you cannot make everyone happy. And yes, EE is a framework and yes, that’s good. It’s even going to become more of a framework with EE2 and that’S even better. Yet, I think it also tries to be more than just a Framework and to be a CMS. To me it seems like EE started out as a Bloggingtype publishing platform and framework. It’s major advantage is that it is ultra flexible. Now it is growing up and trying to become more of a CMS than just a superior blogging platform with framework character. One indicator for this to me is the fact, that weblog wont be weblogs anymore in EE2 and will finally be called sections.

Right now EE can only edit and output content. The edit part is ok and the output part one of the best. Yet, it fails at the management part. Name me one reason why you think it is not useful to have the ability to change the sort oder of content items for example. What would be the downside of EL improving the Page Module further?  Apparently the devs are concerned about usability. Otherwise they would not spend all that effort in making nifty effects and improving the usability of the backend. Well, too me eyecandy is great but maybe they could also improve on the basic features of content management aswell. Please…

You know, I too do think that this criticism is constructive. Honestly, we are using EE, we want to use EE and we pay for EE. So it is in our interest to further improve it and make suggestions leading that way. You sound a little bit like “well EE is for geeks not for the standard user.. and if you don’t like that, you ain’t worth using EE.”

Nobody ever said that he wants a run-it-out-of-the-box-experience. Of course it is not “drop in a few templates and you are rdy to go” sort of thing. for one there aren’t many templates. And those that do exist are mostly somewhat ugly. But hey, there I have to agree with you: the target group of EE is just not the someone who knows absolutly nothing about webdesign.
However, I don’t see what the “run it out of the box and you have a great site rdy to go” has to do with adding decent content management options and improving the functionallity of the existing basic ones?

I think most of the ppl using EE are designers. Designers - not coders. People who simply want a system that is flexible enough to be able to look and behave the way they want it to AND that allows them to manage a site without having to be a coder or having to pay a coder. So if you improve EE’s content management features even more this group should be even more interested in EE, shouldn’t they?

If we all were coders who could just add improved content management features as we need them, we wouldn’t have bought EE. Instead we would have gone with CI.

You know, I too do think that this criticism is constructive.

Oh, I never said otherwise. Every product, EE included, can be improved, and listening to and accepting feedback from the community is something that EllisLab have been very good at from the beginning.

You sound a little bit like “well EE is for geeks not for the standard user.. and if you don’t like that, you ain’t worth using EE.”

I certainly didn’t say that. It’s just that I can understand why EE is catering to a different clientele than, say, WP. From a personal POV I appreciate that, but I will not be drawn into a discussion about it.

I think this discussion has strayed from the point somewhat. So much so, in fact, that I am going to close this thread at this point. Let me repeat, though: Feedback is always welcome. If you have an idea how to further improve ExpressionEngine, please don’t hesitate to post in the feature request forum. Thank you.

Hey, guys.

While Ingmar is correct that this thread has strayed a bit, I wanted to pop in with some more commentary and links.  Specifically, Stranger - this is geared at you.  I’m not sure, at this point, how much you’ve worked with ExpressionEngine.  While there isn’t a “Menu Manager” module, per se, you can certainly allow ExpressionEngine to manage your menus.  Michael Boyink posted some great links to his tutorials above.

Furthermore, you can use Categories - even multiple category groups for one weblog, to organize and stage your content.  You can use Tags, and even Relationships and Reverse Relationships.  There is also the Navigator Module which may be more along the lines of what you are looking for.  And, of course, LG is throwing in his try at this, as well!

Ultimately, site navigations varies throughout the web.  In this regard, ExpressionEngine prefers to allow you to choose how you set up your site, and allow that navigation to carry through into menus that you can generate in several ways, both out of the box, and third-party, or custom developed.  Yes, ExpressionEngine can manage your menus, but you’ll need to figure out how you want that to happen, and then reflect it in how you structure your data and your navigation.

I would recommend that, if you have a particular goal in mind, post in the How To forum!  Detail what you want and the community will probably offer you several ways to achieve your goals in ExpressionEngine.