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Cry with me.

April 07, 2008 1:58pm

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  • #1 / Apr 07, 2008 1:58pm

    helbnt

    143 posts

    First off, a caveat – this is not a post asking for help, nor expounding on the latest and greatest software. I didn’t trash my website or blow my database away. This isn’t a heartwarming story, nor, quite frankly, a very serious one. But it is a true story. A scary story. A story of fear. A story of what can happen when you let those who don’t know, take control. This is a story to warn others what might happen to them.

    This is *my* story.

    A little background: I work for a company that handles bill payments for financial institutions. A few months back I was tasked with managing and maintaining the in-house website for the Customer Service Reps. Before I came on-board, they had several different eager, if over-zealous reps doing the code work. As you can probably imagine, standardization, validation, hell, even basic code structure wasn’t high on anyone’s list of priorities. Or, I have to assume, even knowledge of.

    So I took over this site, and not a day goes by where I don’t curse it. It’s not a simple site. There are over 30 different sub-directories, not to mention how many sub-sub-directories and so on. There is an images directory in pretty much every sub-, and sub-sub-directory. I tend to like my images, my CSS, and my scripts all in one place.

    They use frames. They use frames a LOT. They love frames. Landing on the home page, you are greeted with the typical left-side navigation, header and main content area. All in their own frame. There are links off the navigation area that load yet more frames into the main content. One page has 6 frames on it so when viewing it in the browser, there are a total of 9 different pages being loaded into 9 different frames. Oh, and it gets better my intrepid reader. I’ve seen code where someone has created two frames, one 100% of the height, the other 0% and loaded all of the content into the one frame at 100%. Why? I know not.

    Someone liked Flash. Someone decided that the Customer Service Page needed Flash. It was imperative that Flash be on the page! It’s the newest technology! It’s Here! It’s NOW! So Someone on high must have commanded “BUILD ME… a MENU”. And it was done. A horizontal menu. With little triangles that glow when the text links are moused over. Why do it in Flash? BECAUSE THEY CAN.

    I’ve saved the best for last though. This is the point in the story, my daring, brave and fearless reader, where you turn on all the lights and check that the doors and windows are securely locked. This…this is where it gets scary. See, I can live with frames. I can live with the chaotic navigation, the mess the directories are, the way everything is scattered to the wind. I can live with all that. It’s a challenge, but I’ve managed, and can live with it.  There’s something, however, that is impossible to live with. As a web developer who tries to live by the “code is poetry” credo, to make the code make sense, nest well, and validate, this one thing is…terrifying. Horrendous. On the surface, it seems so innocent. Just three little words. What three little words can take a man such as myself and turn him into a quivering mass of jello that jumps at his own shadow? Three, simple little words. But those three little words should strike fear into every web developer out there:

    “Save as HTML”

    Yes, that wonderful feature found in Microsoft Word, which enables even the most noobiest of noobs to create wonderful looking webpages and scatter them to the wilds of the web, to have their ideas dance along with the electrons of the Internet, to enable them to grace us with their designs and desires to shout out “Hi! This is my first page!” in fantastic 48 point bold comic-sans MS font type, with each word a different color.

    That is what these web pages are written in. Every single page.

    All 1100+ of them.

    It’s enough to make one weep.

  • #2 / Apr 07, 2008 2:11pm

    Crssp-ee

    572 posts

    The best thing I’ve found to do with Word code is paste it in to the visual window of Dreamweaver.
    It dilutes it to straight html. That can be slightly formatted from there if desired.
    Best work around I know of for transposing WORD code. Try it, if they are even doing Tables in Word, oooohhhh I shutter to think.
    Maybe that isn’t the point of the story, love the story!

  • #3 / Apr 07, 2008 2:20pm

    Ingmar

    29245 posts

    I feel your pain. I’ve had to handle sites like that, but luckily never for very long. By the way, have you ever considered a career in writing? I like your style 😊

  • #4 / Apr 07, 2008 4:50pm

    Yvonne Martinsson

    204 posts

    I agree with Ingmar, your writing (in another context) would be a great parody on ‘people who know nothing of the web but still want to not only have a say but to decide what a site is going to look like.’ I’ve come across them too…., shudder…

  • #5 / Apr 07, 2008 6:19pm

    wildrock

    262 posts

    <html xmlns:o=“urn:schemas-microsoft-com🏢office”
    xmlns:w=“urn:schemas-microsoft-com🏢word”
    xmlns=“http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40”>

    <head>
    <meta name=Title content=“I feel your pain”>
    <meta name=Keywords content=”“>
    <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=“text/html; charset=macintosh”>
    <meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
    <meta name=Generator content=“Microsoft Word 11”>
    <meta name=Originator content=“Microsoft Word 11”>
    <link rel=File-List href=“I feel your pain_files/filelist.xml”>
    <title>I feel your pain</title>
    <!—[if gte mso 9]><xml>
    <o:DocumentProperties>
      <o:Template>Normal</o:Template>
      <o:LastAuthor>A&I</o:LastAuthor>
      <o:Revision>1</o:Revision>
      <o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime>
      <o:Created>2008-04-07T21:16:00Z</o:Created>
      <o:LastSaved>2008-04-07T21:17:00Z</o:LastSaved>
      <o:Pages>1</o:Pages>
      <o:Lines>1</o:Lines>
      <o:Paragraphs>1</o:Paragraphs>
      <o:Version>11.773</o:Version>
    </o:DocumentProperties>
    <o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
      <o:AllowPNG>
    </o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
    </xml><![endif]—><!—[if gte mso 9]><xml>
    <w:WordDocument>
      <w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayHorizontalDrawingGridEvery>
      <w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>0</w:DisplayVerticalDrawingGridEvery>
      <w:UseMarginsForDrawingGridOrigin>
    </w:WordDocument>
    </xml><![endif]—>
    <style>
    <!—
    /* Font Definitions */
    @font-face
      {font-family:"Times New Roman";
    panose-1:0 2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3;
    mso-font-charset:0;
    mso-generic-font-family:auto;
    mso-font-pitch:variable;
    mso-font-signature:50331648 0 0 0 1 0;}
    /* Style Definitions */
    p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
      {mso-style-parent:"";
    margin:0in;
    margin-bottom:.0001pt;
    mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
    font-size:12.0pt;
    font-family:"Times New Roman";}
    table.MsoNormalTable
      {mso-style-parent:"";
    font-size:10.0pt;
    font-family:"Times New Roman";}
    @page Section1
      {size:8.5in 11.0in;
    margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
    mso-header-margin:.5in;
    mso-footer-margin:.5in;
    mso-paper-source:0;}
    div.Section1
      {page:Section1;}
    —>
    </style>
    </head>

    <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US [removed]>

    <div class=Section1>

    I feel your pain.

    </div>

    </body>

    </html>

  • #6 / Apr 07, 2008 6:39pm

    Andy Harris

    958 posts

    If you paste Word code right into FCKeditor or TinyMCE it converts it into passable HTML, I’ve found that to be quite time savin.

    But I do feel for you, and I’m even having a little weep. :down:

  • #7 / Apr 07, 2008 7:35pm

    Mark Bowen

    12637 posts

    You mean you don’t have fun with it like I do?

    I love that stuff. Pasting it into something that converts it is for babies. Live dangerously. Change it by hand is what I say!! 😉


    Jus’ kiddin’!!


    helbnt, that was seriously an excellent read. I can’t stop laughing except I’m laughing with you not at you 😊

    I really do feel for you on that one. Personally I never go near anything Microsloth. Just makes me want to tear my own liver out!! 😉
    If this is something you are really doing then good luck and remember if you need any help with any of this…

    …don’t come running my way as I’ll be running the other!!! 😊 😉 😊


    Best wishes,

    Mark

  • #8 / Apr 07, 2008 10:07pm

    helbnt

    143 posts

    @tz3dee: I’m not much of a Dreamweaver person - the only thing I like out of Dreamweaver is Homesite, which I use to code pages when on my Windows machine at work. That being said, if there ever comes the time when I decide to redo all 1100+ pages of MS Word HTML into real HTML, I might just have to look that up. Thanks

    @ingmar & yvonne m:  Thanks for the compliments on writing style - I have taken a couple of creative writing classes find I really enjoy the process. I think I would enjoy doing it as more than just a hobby. Maybe someday.

    @wildrock:  I almost replied back with “Die in a fire” when I saw the MS code - but then I realized it was just your way of showing support. A weird, twisted, sort of sadistic way to show support, but support nonetheless. Thanks for that.

    @Andy: Another good tip! Thanks much!

    @Mark:  You say “Change it by hand” in a joking manner, but on a few pages that I update regularly, I literally have. One page has something like 1400 different table rows spread across 6 tables or something like that (yes, it’s very slow loading). I went through and stripped out all the <font> tags (and there were a ton of them) as well as all the MS Word crap, threw some CSS at the top and turned a page that was over 500K in size down to about 80K - still big but better than it was!

  • #9 / Apr 07, 2008 11:08pm

    Jared Farrish

    575 posts

    I run like hell from projects like these…

    I’ve done a setup using TinyMCE’s conversion setup, and it’s not always as clean as it sounds. You really have to monkey with it, and disallow as many elements as possible (definitely FONT, for instance), and just clean it down to the basic elements, like UL/OL/LI, TABLE and it’s ilk, P/PARA, etc…

    Very not nice. 😊

    I don’t know have any experience with it, but you might try:

    http://wordhtml-cv.technoriver-pte-ltd.qarchive.org/
    http://www.soft32.com/download_189947.html

    Lots of unnecessary hassle, though. We have to do this, though, with an 800-page manual soon. You can cry for me, too.

    Here’s some information on converting, won’t make you feel any better:

    http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/word.html

    Also, try these in Google:

    “php word html converter batch mshtml”

    I bet an enterprising C# developer could probably batch convert all the files, using the .NET library functions and possibly even word itself (set to output filtered HTML).

    Also, I’ve had better success with OpenOffice at times outputting HTML from word files, as it’s generally cleaner, but it’s far from XHTML-compliant using the save-as-html, or at least no closer than Word (but for different reasons).

    You can export in XHTML using OpenOffice, though (hint hint).  :zip:

  • #10 / Apr 14, 2008 6:13pm

    wildrock

    262 posts

    I ran my “I feel your pain” Word html export from above back through BBedit’s Markup “Tidy” utility, and it presented me with the following:

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC “-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN”>
    <html>
    <head>
      <meta name=“generator” content=“HTML Tidy for Mac OS X (vers 14 February 2006), see http://www.w3.org”&gt;
      <title>I feel your pain</title>
    <style type=“text/css”>
    body {
    background-color: white;
    }
    </style>
    </head>
    <body>
      <div class=“Section1”>
      I feel your pain.
      </div>
    </body>
    </html>

    Pretty sweet for dumping a lot of useless code. There is a fully functioning demo at Barebones.com, so give it a try on your Microsloppy code. It might just cut down the task immensely, depending on the code. And BBedit has a great batch converter utility. Of course, this assumes you have OS X to work on. There are </code></pre>some other implementations of HTML Tidy available<pre><code>.

  • #11 / Apr 15, 2008 3:45am

    George Ornbo

    272 posts

    If projects like this come through I explain why this way of building and maintaining a website is going to cost them twice as much. If they aren’t interested in using a standards based approach I withdraw my interest from the project.

    At very least you should put your rates for this kind of work! Horrible just horrible!

  • #12 / Apr 17, 2008 7:06pm

    terrafovea

    2 posts

    Dear god. I’m so sorry.


    (Why isn’t there a button on this thing to somehow upload you some decent whiskey??!? There oughta be!! Somebody notify Expression Engine of this unforgivable shortcoming!)

  • #13 / Apr 17, 2008 11:51pm

    helbnt

    143 posts

    Wow - I’d actually pay extra for that…

    {exp:alcohol:rum brand="Captains" mixer="coke"}
    {if helbnt=sober}
    More {rum}
    {/if}
  • #14 / Apr 18, 2008 3:00am

    terrafovea

    2 posts

    I am so getting that put on a T-shirt.

  • #15 / Apr 18, 2008 3:06am

    Ingmar

    29245 posts

    Just make sure to use correct syntax, though:

    {if helbnt == "sober"}
      More {rum}
    {if:else}
      Go {home}
    {/if}

    😛

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