Thread

What is the difference between builds officially announced in the corresponding forum and “silent” builds like the latest from yesterday?

Reason for asking: I have a client for whom I maintain his EE installation and at some times, I get a “hint” from that client that I haven’t updated to the latest build and he is afraid that might cause some problems for him (not that any problems are known).

Honestly, I look far more often in the forums than the download section - and either the builds forum is a bit out of date or there must be some difference between announced and not announced builds.

-Markus

If we had a fix for a bug that affected perhaps only one out of every 500 or 1000 or even 10,000 installations, would you prefer us release and announce a build every single time?  Or would it be more reasonable (given how many people use ExpressionEngine and update every single time we announce a build) that we fix the bug in the download to insure it does not cause anyone else problems and then wait until there is a large scale bug or enough small bugs to justify announcing a public build? 

Really is just a choice on our part to get the bug fixed immediately in the download area and still having a way to know what version of the files a person is using accurately (via the build number).

reasonable -  according to the rules of logic (Merriam-Webster)

Paul, I can’t follow your “reasonable” argument here - if there is a build forum, but 9 out of 10 builds aren’t announced there, can’t you imagine a client that has outsourced maintaince is somewhat irritated if he sees me not even knowing about a new build? Sorry, but I don’t see your logic.

Let me explain: Especially if a bug may only affect a few installations and given the number of EE installations, announcing all builds and posting the change logs in a proper place would nobody force to update, but give easier access to the information about the current status. That would make it even easier to decide if to update. Right now I have to download the archive only to find out what changed.

So: Yes - I would like you to use a more consistent form of communications here. If you don’t like that, then why not close the build forum - its misleading in the way it is now - and only announce what you would see as a major update in the news - that would even pop up in the installations? That would have more logic and reason to me.

But of course, as always: you’re the boss.

But of course, as always: you’re the boss.

No! He’s not! Users are!
I agree with Marcus, get with it Paul!

Edit-Add: If you follow anything on the web Paul, you’ll know that users are in charge. Without users, you don’t have a job…period! Get used to it!

Marcus, I’d agree with you if this was something that happened regularly, but it’s not “standard practice” as it were to release silent hotfixes; we have done so with extreme rarity.

Derek, I don’t want to get picky on that topic, and I totally agree with you until the release of 1.6.2:

EE1.6.0 build20070622 *
EE1.6.0 build20070626 *
EE1.6.0 build20070627 *
EE1.6.0 build20070705 *
EE1.6.0 build20070708 *
EE1.6.0 build20070724 *
EE1.6.0 build20070726 *
EE1.6.0 build20070815 *
EE1.6.0 build20070918 *
EE1.6.1 build20071204 *
EE1.6.1 build20080118 *
EE1.6.2 build20080124 * (first release)
EE1.6.2 build20080129 -
EE1.6.2 build20080206 -
EE1.6.2 build20080223 -
EE1.6.2 build20080225 -

* denotes a mentioning in the build forums or the news section,
- denotes no announcement found in the build forum.

So, every updated build from 1.6.0 and 1.6.1 I could find on my harddisk was announced, none so far for the update builds for 1.6.2

But I’m glad this topic got your attention and I don’t see me in a position to “demand” anything. Its just a bit annoying from my point of view.

No offense intended
-Markus

ms - I understand your point and to a certain degree I agree with you.  I am not saying that this is the ideal solution.  There are more than your opinion and mine that are being weighed here though.  And no, not every single one is reasonable and logical, but they have to be considered because they do matter.  Other companies have handled this in a myriad of other ways, all the way from Subversion access for the latest version to having the downloadable files being from a nightly build to not even doing builds just updates a few times a year.  A judgement call has been made on the best way to handle this for us, for the time being.  It has been based on our own needs both involving support and development, complaints in the past, suggestions from users as well, and what we can realistically do.  Thinking on your complaint right now, the best solution would be do away with builds entirely as you seem to have an overzealous client.  You should explain to your client that if they are not having a problem, then builds should not even be on their radar.  If there is a major bug or change in ExpressionEngine, then it would more than likely be cause for a version, not a build.

Randy - No, I am in charge.  My job involves a whole lot more than listening to one or two users in a single forum thread.  It involves keeping an eye on the opinions, thoughts, and judgements of two entire communities.  These communities stretch from a single user who might never even post in our forums all the way to Fortune 500 companies.  Bloggers, designers, developers, hosting clients, hosts.  Every single one of them is thought about and considered.  And then I have to, yes, think about my company.  My co-workers, my employees, and even my boss.  How we function and how we can do the best we can with what we have.  If you do not think I am with it, sir, then you may contact Rick and voice your concerns, but otherwise I think your post is inconsiderate and ill mannered.

ms - To help you with this one client, here is an RSS 2.0 feed to show you the current build of EE in the download area.  Hope it helps.

ms - To help you with this one client, here is an RSS 2.0 feed to show you the current build of EE in the download area.  Hope it helps.

That link shows no listings…is it the correct link?

Yes, it is.  And it seems to be working just fine.

Hmmm…OK, thanks. Must be an issue on my end then.

Hm, any chance to get that feed via plain ol’ (unecrypted) http? The magpie plugin chokes on https.

The Snoopy library that the Magpie plugin uses has a bug in it.  I will fix that for the next version so it can handle HTTPS feeds correctly.  Send me an email and I can get you the file.

I agree with Paul.  The client seems to be needlessly obsessing over the builds.  Perhaps this is a “client education” issue.  By updating with every build you are probably more likely to introduce a problem to the site by switching out files (human error or file corruption) than you are by running into problems with a bug that has been fixed in the build.

Paul, perhaps Ellislab could put a blurb somewhere explaining what a build is and that upgrading is unnecessary unless the site has a problem in which a bug might be suspected.  If we could point this out in the “manual” then maybe it would make our case stronger when explaining the build forum should largely be ignored. Or maybe this already exists somewhere and I did not see it.

Actually, John, I do agree with you that updating to every new build is a bad idea. But that was not my point. I was more referring to that fact that there is a forum named “build forum” but it doesn’t show new builds since some time without me knowing the reason. And the only way (for me) to find information on new builds and the changes applied was to head to the download section, compare build dates, download the new build, extract it, look at the change log and then decide if updating is advised. That’s cumbersome and my client asked me about builds I didn’t even know of.

From my viewpoint, just communication the new builds in the forum with the change log (as it was in the past) would result in reducing the number of downloads, less work (time) for users to keep informed and easier decision about the need to update. Ideally, build announcements could be preceeded with hints like *update advised only if problems occur* or *update recommended*. But as mentioned, I only wanted to bring the item to notice, not demand a certain communication strategy from EllisLab.

Paul - thanks for pointing to the RSS feed.