Thread

I’ll just throw in $0.02 here as well. Mac. I can run Windows “inside” my MacBook Pro using Parallels, which solves the problem of testing sites in PC browsers, but that’s all I need Windows for, pretty much. I don’t do pivot tables 😛

My mac just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. It’s not a computer, it’s a lifestyle!

Just an fyi on crashing.

I’ve been running Vista Ultimate on my machine for quite awhile now. I rarely reboot. Usually once every couple weeks when I run updates.

I’ve not had a single BSOD since building this new machine, and I REALLY push my PC hard.

Also, with the price drops man it’s cheap to run new PC’s right now. eg:

You can get an AMD X2 64bit dual core CPU (4600) for less than 100.00. Seriously.
you can also get 2 gb of Corsair XMS2 PC 5200 (VERY good ram) for under 100.00.

so you can buy a dual core cpu and 2 GB of ram which is perfect for less than $200.00

I don’t think you’d have any problems with a PC, and there is SO much more software written for Windows.

I think you’d be happy with whichever you bought, but as far as ‘bang for the buck’ it’s not even comparable. Just don’t get something like a ‘dell’ prebuilt. Get someone to put a decent machine together for you and you’ll be happy

I’m not saying buy a PC over a mac though. i’m just throwing out some compelling reasons why there’s nothing wrong with buying a PC.

2. Some very good programs are not available on MAC

Like what?

3. In OSX you are trapped inside your OS..you cannot do something the OS does not like

Please explain this.

4. On the MAC apple does a great job in Vender-Lock-in

Lock in to what?

5. PC supports much more hardware (sure MAC has quality hardware, but the normal budget hardware are not available for mac *the drivers*)

Like what?

6. When you want to buy new hardware for MAC you MUST buy MAC approved thing’s…you can’t yust go buy something out in the open (sure this is stability on the mac, but c’mon don’t restrain me from buying my shizzle)

How is this different than buying things for Windows? I have bought hard drives, mice, keyboards and RAM, none of which were Apple products

7. It’s a fashion accessory, not a computer (sure it has some great apps out of the box, but not enough third party apps to have enough choice)

A fashion accessory is a ring or necklace. My mac never leaves my house…how is it a fashion accessory?

8. Have you ever tried replacing the HDD on one of those clamshell ibooks man that was a hassle

I’ll race you to change my HD in my MacBook vs any laptop on the market

9. Sure you can run windows in parrarels, but again (it’s virtualized) and you cannot use normal hardware cause of the MAC OSX is your basic OS

Which hardware?

10. MAC fanboys don’t like criticism about the MAC (youl see on reply’s of my post…much of them won’t have significant/powerful arguments… maybe EE community can do a better job at it)

As soon as you present some valid criticisms, perhaps we can talk.

Pro’s of a MAC
1. Doesn’t crash (why would it, you can’t do things out of the ordaniry) last time something crashed on my home pc in windows..man can’t even remember when..windows is being fixed

I can’t remember the last time my Windows XP system crashed

2. It is nice looking
3. Some pretty neat apps out of the box

No argument here

4. Not much virus out there for mac

I can’t remember the last time my Windows machine got infected with a virus.

Bottom point: MAC is a fashion product that is good for the trend people

I would say that Macs just let people get their work done, instead of having to fight with their system. That they look good is a bonus. But I would buy a Mac just because It Just Works.

That being said, I recommend people choose a system based on only a few things:
1) Can you get help with it (support)?
2) Can you afford it?
3) Does a particular system meet your needs?

I don’t think you’d have any problems with a PC, and there is SO much more software written for Windows.

Quantity != Quality. That is like saying that there are so many more templates and plugins for WordPress that it must be better!

No it’s not. It’s like saying there’s a ton more software to choose from.

Please don’t try twisting my words with your own thoughts.

OK here goes:
(i am sure i will get bashed)

Not bashed, but you did a point by point, so some correction on misstatements is certainly in order (and in good humor) 😉

2. Some very good programs are not available on MAC

Such as?  I mean there are plenty of fantastic apps that are Mac only, so this one is true either way, and a wash.  (It’s not MAC btw; it’s not an acronym.  MAC is a unique address given to network devices).

3. In OSX you are trapped inside your OS..you cannot do something the OS does not like

Eh?

4. On the MAC apple does a great job in Vender-Lock-in

This is true, and if you aren’t used to knowing where to look, this can be legitimately frustrating when searching for a new video card.  Every other peripheral this is really not the case, as the Mac, well, just works with stuff.  Most hardware devices come with a sheet of instructions and a disc for Windows, and the Mac instructions get a quick paragraph telling you to just plug the danged thing in. 😉

7. It’s a fashion accessory, not a computer (sure it has some great apps out of the box, but not enough third party apps to have enough choice)

Are you sure you’ve used a Mac in the past 3-4 years?  Your job doesn’t require you to use Quark, does it? :-D

8. Have you ever tried replacing the HDD on one of those clamshell ibooks man that was a hassle

Yeah, I know—but that’s relevant now why?  HDD replacement on a Macbook is 5x as easy as most Windows-based notebooks.

9. Sure you can run windows in parrarels, but again (it’s virtualized) and you cannot use normal hardware cause of the MAC OSX is your basic OS

Ask anyone (such as myself) using Parallels or Boot Camp.  This is a non-issue.  Virtualization is not emulation.  The OS you are running in a virtualization layer has direct access to your hardware resources.  Not only has Apple been very good about writing drivers for hardware devices, as are most things Apple-engineered, the quality is top notch.  They aren’t just tossing things together to get it working adequately.  They are ensuring that it runs well.  Ubuntu runs fine on a Mac too.

Pro’s of a MAC
1. Doesn’t crash (why would it, you can’t do things out of the ordaniry) last time something crashed on my home pc in windows..man can’t even remember when..windows is being fixed

Yep, Windows is getting better.  But it’s getting better much more slowly than OS X is moving ahead.  And OS X is not stable because the computer is crippled; it’s a direct result of the Darwin BSD underpinnings.

2. It is nice looking

When you get to the truth of the points you raise, you’re pretty much saying that there isn’t a very big difference between the two.  That makes aesthetics a strong selling point to people who are tired of gadgets looking like nerdly gadgets.  I dress nice, so should my computer.

4. Not much virus out there for mac

By not much, you mean zero.  And you left out spyware and adware, which are essentially nonexistant as well.  How many background processes does the average Windows user have running simply for the purpose of protecting themselves from things that are otherwise annoying?  Oh, and why are Windows machines always so loud?  Ugh.

(JT: Macs can use any quality RAM, too; I use G.SKILL that I buy from NewEgg in both my desktop and notebook)

(JT: Macs can use any quality RAM, too; I use G.SKILL that I buy from NewEgg in both my desktop and notebook)

Yup that’s a really good point. Thanks.

The reality of this is it comes down to personal preference. The ‘this is better’ argument is really mental masturbation. Either product will be plenty capable of doing what a person is wanting to do.

The problem with these conversations (which I’ve already seen on both sides) is fanboys of PCs and Macs take points from other sides personally and it becomes a ridiculous battle of nothing.

That being said, I recommend people choose a system based on only a few things:
1) Can you get help with it (support)?
2) Can you afford it?
3) Does a particular system meet your needs?

A number of years ago, I worked as a manager for Gamestop (then Babbage’s—told you it was ages ago), and this reminds me of the question “Which video game system should I buy?”  It’s really not that different.  Find what’s important to you, what applications you want to run, and what leaves you happy with your purchase.  It doesn’t matter what the family before or after you buys.  And don’t look with preconceived ideas.  Allow yourself to really experience each environment in a prime state, and make a qualified decision.

The problem with these conversations (which I’ve already seen on both sides) is fanboys of PCs and Macs take points from other sides personally and it becomes a ridiculous battle of nothing.

And to stem that tide, I’ll go ahead and bring up Nazis so we can declare that I am loser of the debate, and we can move on while this thread is still fun for everyone. :-D

No it’s not. It’s like saying there’s a ton more software to choose from.

Please don’t try twisting my words with your own thoughts.

I took that to read that you meant because there was more software that Windows was a better platform.

I was trying to point out that having more choice doesn’t necessarily mean that any platform is better. For me (only for me, mind you), the number of choices I have is irrelevant if none of them meet my needs. Just because there are more Ford models than Bentleys, doesn’t mean that I should buy a Ford. Not that there is anything wrong with Fords of course; we loved our purple Escort.

I didn’t mean to “twist your words”, I was merely interpreting them, with my own natural biases. I did not intend others to think I was right and you were wrong.

The problem with forums is that it is impossible to determine ones intent, without writing a whole bunch of words!

No offense meant.

I wasn’t referring to you at all Derek. In fact I appreciate comments like yours because they’re not bashing one or the other.

The reality of this is it comes down to personal preference. The ‘this is better’ argument is really mental masturbation. Either product will be plenty capable of doing what a person is wanting to do.

The problem with these conversations (which I’ve already seen on both sides) is fanboys of PCs and Macs take points from other sides personally and it becomes a ridiculous battle of nothing.

Hey I agree!! Cool!!

I wasn’t referring to you at all Derek. In fact I appreciate comments like yours because they’re not bashing one or the other.

My intent, wasn’t to bash, just to counter. I hope that everyone can make an informed decision.

As Derek said.  Video cards is the only area where I’ve found it difficult to use a peripheral that Apple doesn’t itself ship.  ATI ships, or at least they did, some stand alone cards that work in Macs but I don’t believe I’ve ever seen anything from Nvidia that wasn’t an OEM part.  And further you can’t buy the off brand stuff that license the chipsets.  So even in the case of ATI you have to buy the ones made directly by ATI.  Kind of a drag if having the fastest 3D graphics card is a big deal for you.

And the software company you work for notably ships an application that to my knowledge has never shipped for Mac.  Though, at the same time they are hardly the only 3D software company in town.  And plenty of successful 3D shops use Macs.  So its not really easy to argue that its not possible.  That said I’ve always heard great things about 3D Studio Max.  It’s too bad it’s not available.  At the same time that unavailability means nothing to me really as it doesn’t affect my work and likely wouldn’t affect the work of your general web developer/designer which, I’m assuming, the original questioner is.

The fact that this didn’t turn into an immediate flame war (thank you Derek for getting the Nazi reference over with early!) is a credit the general group here.

That said, Victor, you were looking for a fight.

10. MAC fanboys don’t like criticism about the MAC (youl see on reply’s of my post…much of them won’t have significant/powerful arguments… maybe EE community can do a better job at it)

Bottom point: MAC is a fashion product that is good for the trend people

Funny thing is until the last few years the second item was anything but the case.  I was ridiculed for using a Mac when I first started using them.  Apple was not popular at the time.  And their marketing frankly sucked.  I admit the current popularity is nice since I don’t have to put up with people telling me I’m an idiot for preferring a Mac.  However, popularity, good looks, and good marketing is hardly a reason to [bold]not[/bold] use something.  Just as much as lack of popularity and good marketing is hardly a good reason.  If the item does what you need better than the other options and in a way you prefer.  Use it.

And I’ve yet to see a group of “fanboys” for any product/company/etc. that didn’t react badly to being told their favorite thing sucked.  Thats a non argument, and something you just say to get a reaction.

On Adobe Premier, didn’t Apple kind of push them out of the market with Final Cut Pro?  I seem to remember that being the death nell, though recently I remember hearing that Adobe had decided to try and fight back with a new version of Premier for Mac.  But that version is pretty recent.  That there aren’t a lot of plugins for the Mac version yet isn’t surprising.  Of course there aren’t a lot of plugins for Final Cut Pro on Windows either, oh, wait…

On your programming example I can’t really say much directly as I don’t program system level stuff for either platform.  That said, there are plenty of scripting things I can’t do by default on Windows that I can do immediately on Mac.  And I dare say, I suspect the inability to do what you want has more to do with your knowledge of the OS then the OS itself.  Due to the UNIX underpinnings in OS X I often am able to find solutions to weird needs or problems in ways I’m unable to do through Windows because I’m pretty comfortable with UNIX.  That said I’ve seen some impressive stuff done with the command shell in Windows as well.  That I don’t know the Windows command shell well enough to do those things does not mean that the Windows command shell is useless, unusable, or inferior.  Back in the OS 7, 8 and 9 days the Mac OS was not an easy thing to tinker with and your argument would make more sense but with OS X Apple made an incredibly significant change in that respect by adopting BSD Unix as the underlying architecture.  And, in some ways OS X is now actually easier to tinker with under the hood then Windows.  Though, like I said my perception of this could be due to my lack of Windows tinkering knowledge.

Regardless, I can’t help but come to the conclusion that most of the arguments you make are either non sequiturs or else trolling.  I’ll give you the more software thing (though I’ve rarely needed something on my Mac that I could only get on Windows), I’ll give you the graphics card hardware thing (though its a non issue for me as I don’t play games and don’t need anything better than what Apple generally ships with their machines).

This has turned into an excuse for me to further procrastinate on my work I should be doing.  So I’ll stop.  The other’s have it right.  Try them out, decide what you need, and make a decision based on what fits you best.

Jamie

I am going to buy a new Mac next month. This will be my first Apple product of any kind by the way!

I’m undecided between a 24” iMac or a MacBook. I already have a Windows notebook so if I travel I can use that. I only need Firefox on it so it’s not really an issue for me.

I think I have just convinced myself on the iMac!

Woohoo!