Thread

I expect the Pages module to be very helpful, because there have been a number of times when I wanted to install a one-time page on my site, and I _think_ that’s what this new module will allow. Is this correct? Here’s what I found in the docs as to the purpose of the new Pages module:

Welcome to the ExpressionEngine Pages Module, a module that allows you to easily create and maintain page content that is more akin to static content than dynamic information.

It seems like it could use some additional detail. 😊 What are the benefits of using this new module vs. regular EE pages?

Maybe I missed some of the docs - they seem rather sparse for this module, probably because it’s brand new. I saw these entries:

http://expressionengine.com/docs/modules/pages/index.html
http://expressionengine.com/docs/modules/pages/manage_page_content.html
http://expressionengine.com/docs/modules/pages/display_page_content.html

I’m not sure yet what goes in the Body section on the Publish page when the Pages tab is selected. Is it the full html for a page - head section, body section etc? Probably not, because the page is supposed to be associated with a template. But if it’s associated with a template, what makes it different from a non-Pages Body section?

Could we get some more info, and an example of the Body section for a Pages entry?

Thanks in advance for the info.

I agree with Vik. In general I find that EE does a poor job of explaining in plain English features, how things work, process, etc. I mean the only way you can really find out about the pages module is from the documentation. Thats not the greatest sales job for potential customers. I love EE and think its a great product.

I think EE does a decent job on their documentation. I mean - if the docs aren’t good then maybe the video tutorials will help 😉. To me the documentation is typically pretty clear, and the organization is thought out. What I suspect is that this module documentation was stuck there more as a placeholder until the module was out the door and had time to drop something more detailed in. I also suspect getting these versions out the door is a big production and I think with the redesign and all the new features in this last version, that they’ve had their hands full in giving us every little new surprise and treat lately. You all have made a good point that further explanation about the module is in order - and I bet they will probably serve it up soon.

I mean the only way you can really find out about the pages module is from the documentation.

How else would you expect to learn about the Pages module?

The methodical and comprehensive nature in which the docs are put together are better than anything else I’ve seen.  It would be a mistake to exhaust the documentation to the point where they (ellis lab) are telling us each step they would take to accomplish something.  One of the nicer features of EE is that there are multiple ways to approach problems.  The docs serve as a boost to get the users pointed in the right direction.

I think the EE docs are excellent. I just would like a little more detail on the Pages module. I think I’m getting it all figured out from just mulling it over. It seems to me that it’s for pages that stand apart from the rest of the site, and that can use a different template than your main index template. Is this correct?

While regarding the EE docs as very helpful and concise, I would agree that the docs for the pages module are a bit weak. They don’t even mention index.php which processes all of the EE front end. Its a bit of a try-and-error game to find out what is possible and how it works.

ms - which part of the docs do you feel need to mention index.php?  All of the URLs are done after index.php processing.  I’d be happy to look at improvements for the Pages docs, but I don’t know that index.php should be mentioned there.

I also ask everyone to remember that this is, in fact, a new module.  The community often takes the modules in directions that are pretty amazing, and it will be interesting to see what comes out for this one.  There is already a plugin to output a list of all Pages.

Essentially, yes - you can create your own URL (the part after index.php, just like anything else in EE) - it also gives you a screen listing all of your pages.  You can do all sorts of things with that kind of flexibility and it has been something asked for quite a bit on these forums (though often not directly).

I imagine, also, that some people will go a bit crazy with this ability.  I really am looking forward to seeing how it gets used. =)

Lisa, first let me say that I personally found out how the new module works (at least I think so regarding the basics *g*).

Regarding the index.php part, as a veteran EE user I assumed that the part mentioned as “uri” would resemble the part after index.php. But perhaps a short note or a simple example would make the docs clearer at that point, especially for new users: One can easily mix http://www.site.com/my/new/page and www.site.com(index.php/my/new/page following the docs.

For advanced users, it would even be interesting to know how the pages module will play with different methods of removing index.php (haven’t tried that until now and I do know that none is officially supported) and if the segment variables can be used in the “static” templates for example to build a breadcrumb navigation or something else.

-Markus

I’m still confused, are these docs not clear enough, Markus? They give examples and everything….

The pages module plays fine with removing index.php since they only handle the URL after that point. =)

Honestly, I really found the second example to be a bit misleading at first - mostly because of a misinterpretation of the term “URI” and the .html extension on my side:

/my_stuff/list.html seemed to resemble as http://www.site.com/my_stuff/list.html at first, not http://www.site.com/index.php/my_stuff/list.html

However, as mentioned above, it became clear very soon ... I just would have loved to see an example for a complete “static page URL” in the docs. Or perhaps, URI should be cross-referenced to the corresponding part of the docs.

But of course - as you already mentioned: its a new module, a great one (especially: no need to give access to the module section for editors, but being able to handle pages through the edit form as well) and usage will become more common over time.

There are two examples of what you would enter in the box there - are you saying that you think seeing an example such as:

http://example.com/corporate/roster/board/ceo would be useful somewhere? Not in those examples since you wouldn’t want to add them in the URL box, though.

I’ll see what I can do about it.  I found the docs quite straightforward (I used them during the internal beta to get things up on my own site) but it certainly helps to see other’s perspectives and I’ll see what I can do about clarifying that a bit. 

Also, there aren’t other documented places to point people to yet.  I think that many of us have been around for so long that learning a new module is like a new experience - you should’ve seen me sitting here trying to work out the Sites expansion, eyes widening with every click. =)  Same with Pages - in fact my first attempt at pages yielded a 404 because I use the “include” method of removing index.php and I was putting my Page url as /about-lisa/. 

Like a kid in a playground, and I admit it - I, too, am still learning about some of the new features and having some epiphanies as I go.  To that end - both for my own personal benefit (I run several EE sites for varying purposes) - and for my work here, I am watching the community with baited breath, seeing what some of the most creative folks come up with, and seeing how far they’ll take things.  I know how flexible EE is and yet, the community still manages to surprise me with some of the amazing ideas that they accomplish in EE (without any extra code, just creative use of EE’s own tags!).  I am eagerly looking forward to seeing how that comes into play with the Pages module.

Hi Lisa,

Somehow the issues people are having here remained in my thoughts, and I have a suggestion which may help answering.

I think the issue is context.  It’s especially visible here, as with understanding a foreign language, with which I get a lot practice. 

In both cases it’s the short, ‘simple’ things people fire off at you that are the hardest to understand.  You often just cannot get at all what they are talking about.

I had to sit down with Pages myself.  Simple concept, almost nothing to talk about…or is there?

- You have to see that you need a container for the pages:  a ‘weblog’ in the way EE language is spoken.

- this can’t be one of your other weblogs, because then the Pages would show up there, as well as at their unique URL, ‘static’ location.

- The pages need something interesting in the way of template(s) to show themselves.  The closest basis is perhaps the ‘comments’ template, which seems often re-used for other things as well.  But you probably don’t want the pagination those have, either, so that you see only the one ‘static page’ you expect.

- then there is the issue of the static path, which is one thing covered in the examples.  Or is it?  Notice the questions about deleting a Page, which suggest this might be done by deleting the path; but really the path has nothing to do with it.  You would delete a static page from its container ‘weblog’, just as any other content.

- and yes, the whole ‘URI’ thing is pretty confusing, if you have a knowledge of what it is supposed to mean, which is just about opposite from the EE definition.  Wikipedia is a surprisingly good source, but you probably won’t want to bother.  The point is that this community has, along with ‘weblog’, some pretty interesting definitions all of its own.

- and that gives an idea why it’s so important to outline a full circle of the story you are trying to tell, when introducing and documenting a new EE ability.  Clear concepts are the ‘hooks’ (a better formal word is scaffold) on which people build their pictures, and that is the only way they are going to get ‘inside’ the worldview, adequately at least to their needs.  Which of course are Ellis Labs’ needs, so that the products flourish, which we all want.

I’d just like to say in finishing that I think you guys are on a kind of a cusp here.  Your system is reaching quite a level of capability—and with that, it is near a border of understandable complexity, no doubt for people inside as well as out here (or intermediate, when we participate).  So these matters of keeping it straight, and arranging clear pictures in each ‘locale’ to do that, are as important for customers as for those who make designs inside.  Again, at least in a view from here.

Ok, off of soapbox, and I hope as with other thoughts offered, that it helps.

Regards,
Clive

Hi again, Lisa,

It’s morning here, and I’ve edited the above slightly, hoping to make it clearer.  Should know better than to write these things late at night after a lot of work, this time done on a weekend because it had to be.

Lisa, I know you’ll get what I’m talking about, with your fine education just reached it’s point of sending you off into the world.  It’s about discourse; about the points where persons can enter a discourse, and being sure they can find the full conversation open to them.

Best regards, again,
Clive

- this can’t be one of your other weblogs, because then the Pages would show up there, as well as at their unique URL, ‘static’ location.

Actually, it can.

- and yes, the whole ‘URI’ thing is pretty confusing

I grant you that. It was clear to me, but perhaps a better, less technical explanation might be added, together with an example.

Hi Ingmar,

On the first, I think you are kind of making my point from above.  I didn’t know about that ‘show_pages’ control for the normal weblog:entries tag—how would I?  It’s not mentioned in the Pages doc; also, to get any use of it I would have to change all the templates which ran with that weblog. 

Again, if a clear, normal-case model for Pages was presented, then this could be mentioned as a special case—_if_ one wanted to make multiple use on a weblog…here’s what to do.

Anyway, I’m not trying to make contention here, as I am sure you know - quite the opposite actually. 

Thanks for pointing out the feature, too - good to know.

Best,
Clive

- this can’t be one of your other weblogs, because then the Pages would show up there, as well as at their unique URL, ‘static’ location.

Actually, it can.

- and yes, the whole ‘URI’ thing is pretty confusing

I grant you that. It was clear to me, but perhaps a better, less technical explanation might be added, together with an example.