Thread

My company is about to begin selling a product that uses CodeIgniter, and I need to clarify what we need to do to comply with the terms of the license.

The relevant part of the license says:

Products derived from the Software must include an acknowledgment that they are derived from CodeIgniter in their documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

How does EllisLab define “derived”?

If it is defined like “derivative work” in the GPL, then anything that incorporates a non-trivial bit of CodeIgniter code is a derivative work, and we have to include an acknowledgment.

If it is defined like “derivative work” in U.S. copyright law, or in OSL-3.0, then our product is not a derivative work, and we don’t have to include an acknowledgment.

“Derived” means “based on”, and is applicable when you have altered CodeIgniter itself (i.e. the files in the system folder).

It has no relevance on anything in the application folder, which is your application to which you, as an author, have the rights.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the information, but I need to ask where you got it.

Please don’t take this amiss: the answer to my question has legal implications, so the usual “try it and see if it works” approach to forum answers doesn’t apply.

Please don’t take this amiss: the answer to my question has legal implications, so the usual “try it and see if it works” approach to forum answers doesn’t apply.

Then you should probably be consulting an attorney for legal advice that’s designed to keep you/your company out of legal trouble, not an internet forum.

I’m afraid that’s not a meaningful suggestion. You see, I am an attorney. That’s not what I was primarily hired for, but I’m as qualified to resolve this question as any outside attorney we could pay.

Unfortunately, being an attorney doesn’t give me the ability to read minds. I can argue both sides in the best lawyerly manner, but without knowing what the license means to the people who created it, all I can say at the end is “there’s no telling, so be safe.”

I know that EllisLab personnel participate in these forums, and I’m hoping one of them will provide an answer that carries official weight. Alternatively, someone could point out a place where they have already answered this question… something I have looked for but haven’t found.

They are in the process of changing licenses to OSL3 for the next major release of CI.  There is a long thread discussing it, and EllisLabs basically said they don’t want to be giving any legal advice on it.  You can read the replies from Derek Jones about it, here.  If you plan to keep using updated versions of CI, you might want to check into that too.

EllisLabs doesn’t really participate in the forum as much as they used to, before “reactor” anyway.

It doesn’t make me very confident in these licenses if attorneys don’t understand them.  Think of what lay people conclude.  Can’t wait on your opinion on OSL3 😊

I’m aware of OSL3, and I’ve read the thread you mentioned (although “dissected” is more what I did).

OSL3 is much more clear. Just reading it, I can be pretty sure that it defines “derived” the way you do, U.S. copyright law does, and most speakers of colloquial English would. The attorney who drafted the license confirms that this is what it means; see OSL 3.0: A Better License for Open Source Software.

If I could apply OSL3 to the version of CodeIgniter we’re using now, I’d breathe a huge sigh of relief.

As for what laymen think when they read this thing… it’s probably not that different from what I think! The difference is that I’m supposed to know what it means, but as I said, I can’t do so without being a mindreader.

If I could apply OSL3 to the version of CodeIgniter we’re using now, I’d breathe a huge sigh of relief.

I recommend contacting EllisLab directly about this - http://ellislab.com/company/contact

orthoducks, your assessment is correct regarding both licenses - the 2.x legacy license requires attribution for products made with CodeIgniter, while OSL 3.0 (which future versions will be licensed under) uses the term in the framework of copyright language.  For projects with specific licensing needs not met by the above, you can email .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).  You have already contacted us, though, but I thought I would mention it.