Thread

@wiredesignz - We are all human. We all make mistakes. Sorry if you don’t agree with the team put in place.

@Eric, I have no issue with people making mistakes.

My issue is with what appears to be a lack of communication inside the team and that some contributions are being pulled into the repository without proper review.

For instance, who decided that class methods should be private instead of protected and why was it left to Derek Jones to have to rebuild the framework after that “Non trivial whitespace removal” merge?

At least I knew when Ellislab had control of the framework, that changes were most likely well thought out and considered by more than one person.

There is no “us verses them” we’re all on the same side. We talk to EllisLab all the time on Basecamp. As I’ve said communication outwards to the community is an issue that needs to be addressed and that will come in the form of more regular blogging.

We can’t do everything all at once. The recent changes are a massive improvement but there are still things to do.

“who decided that class methods should be private instead of protected” I’m right there with you on that one but I’m not sure why you assumed it was the Reactor team. I saw your snide comment about how the Reactor team are dictating these things, but this was not a Reactor member that made the change. No decision had ever been made on whether private methods were to be globally denied or uses sparingly, and EllisLab set the president with some of the core libraries.

Your comment on that commit contained a valid point. Raise a point, discuss the options, change the framework. That is far more effective than trolling and complaining about things.

In my opinion,i think there should be more communication from the reactor developers.Have a website or something..

That’s what I just said! :lol: We’ll be posting on the blog a few times a month with updates.

At least I knew when Ellislab had control of the framework, that changes were most likely well thought out and considered by more than one person.

Yeah, except it took two or three years for bug fixes. Do you know how open source development works? No single person has the keys to the castle, and ultimately EllisLab still has control over official releases. If you have an issue with a change go on over to Github and submit a pull request (or comment on an existing one). Maybe you like your software buggy and late, but I sure as hell don’t. Open source is good you, myself, EllisLab, and the framework.

The nice part is now there is an open audit trail and mechanisms for us to shape the future. If you have an issue, fix it, don’t come here and cause drama. If you have a serious issue, fork it, and go off on your merry way. Public vs. Private vs. Protected deliberations is not a valid reason to trash everyone else’s contributions.

The cry for more communication will never be satisfied. 24-hour news channels are just not enough.

I consider the change log the best form of communication on this issue.

Keep focus on the coding.

Sincere thanks for all your work.

Yeah, except it took two or three years for bug fixes…

Are you sure about that? I don’t ever rcall there being 2 years between releases and I do recall bug fix releases and security patches coming out as needed.

... Public vs. Private vs. Protected deliberations is not a valid reason to trash everyone else’s contributions.

That is EXACTLY the reason to make an issue, the lack of consistency in code quality and code review IS the problem.

It’s not something to be a dick about, just something that you should hop on GitHub and discuss. I tried to agree with you but being stuck on shitty Wi-Fi while in a hotel at CICON made that impossible. I believe nothing in the core should be so important that its protected by private at that means a developer cannot extend it, which is wrong.

Why not simply say “This should be protected instead of private, and here is why?”. Instead you go on a rant about how Reactor Engineers are “dictating” and no good at their jobs? Somebody saw a valid fix and merged it. We hadn’t had a discussion about public v private, so the Engineer who merged this change had no reason to be concerned especially as there are already shitloads of private functions in the codebase.

Thanks for removing the “@Phil, So the “Reactor team is not responsible for the recent problems”
Will you ever stop making excuses?” from your response which I noticed in the email. You love to run around accusing everyone of being useless, and when we try to explain why you have missed the point by a mile you call it an excuse. I fixed 4 valid CodeIgniter bugs in the last two days. What have you done of any use?

@Phil, You keep suggesting I need to contribute to CodeIgniter development for some reason that eludes me. You also imply that we have to accept all the rubbish that we see in the repository because you believe you’re some kind of heroes giving your time for free. Get over yourself man.

I am not interested in reviewing all of the code being altered in the repository by you guys… that’s the job of your team. Get on with it.

When I see development is being well thought out and planned by a cohesive group then I will get onto your side. Not before.

No, I use CodeIgniter to produce websites and applications for my clients - which is the point of this whole thing right? - and I fix bugs while I go. I dedicate my time because CodeIgniter being more stable is financial viable for me. The better it is the more money I make from addon sales and the less time I waste fixing random things for clients.

All the changes made by the Reactor team are vetted by EllisLab, who have the right to veto anything they disagree with, so once again your arguments come completely without any weight.

That’s rubbish Phil, Derek Jones had to manually undo a recent pull. Where was the vetting?

You are so full of it.

I assume you are talking about Derek having to remove the “Whitespace Fix” that somebody merged? Agreed, that was terrible, but that was not “recently”. It was exactly that change that prompted a discussion, which led to the workflow we have now.

You see every negative as another nail in the coffin for CodeIgniter and another piece of proof that we are shit. Any brand new open source project has teething issues and that is just what those are. We’ve all been talking to each other (Me, John, Eric, Kenny, Greg, Derek and Pascal) about how to make things better and we’ve got plenty of plans in place.

You wouldn’t know otherwise because they are internal conversations. We are striving to make things more public and obvious, but for the mean time you’ll just have to take my word on that. 😉

And stop editing your posts half an hour after you make them, it makes it really difficult to have any sort of sensible conversation if you change what you say all the time.

I am not interested in reviewing all of the code being altered in the repository by you guys… that’s the job of your team. Get on with it.

When I see development is being well thought out and planned by a cohesive group then I will get onto your side. Not before.

That wasn’t there when I replied.

It’s there now. Get over yourself Phil.

EDIT:
Since the Reactor team took over I have witnessed poor communication with the team not having a decent development roadmap in place. I have seen you publicly release a buggy version of CI and I have seen you pull code into the repository without proper review.

I hope your new work flow actually does improves things and is not just more hot air. And I will stop bitching when I see more consistent development practices.

Nobody’s got a gun to your head forcing you to use CI. I suppose you enjoying crying about nothing and being a troll.