Thread

This is related to the thread about needing more support staff, and what has happened to the sense of community on the forums…

I notice that you guys are trigger happy to close threads. You always encourage folks to start a new thread if they have further questions, but honesty, it really thwarts community.

It really feels like you are using the forums as a “support ticket” area, and are eager to shut down the conversations… ex: http://ellislab.com/forums/viewthread/187970/#889498 why was this shut down? Other newbies might join in, and what’s the harm?

Can you talk about your strategy for shutting down threads so quickly? And as you probably know, any kind of moderation on a forum always feels like you are being scolded, it is just the nature of the beast. And when you shut down a thread too soon, even if the person writes to say “Yes! it worked!” the next day, they may still have a related issue that they didn’t realize… and now they have to start a new thread. But, it does involve more effort. It sounds simple, but in reality, it shuts down communication, and feels like someone else is controlling the conversation.

Please, can you explain what your intentions are, and know that every time it happens in a thread that I am participating in, it leaves a bad feeling.

I think that you ARE using the forums as your support ticket area, and if this were just a support ticket between you and the user, that you might want to close out the ticket. And I understand, you are trying to keep it from being hijacked with a new person’s troubles that might not be exactly the same… can throw off an issue. but, it feels way controlling.

Hi, Evoir,

We are using the forum in a ticketing way.  This is true.

We resolve threads when the posters involved in the threads have their questions answered.  In the thread you linked to, the user stated that he was good to go - so it was closed as part of the support process.  In this case, webachino had the information that he needed.  That doesn’t look abrupt or overly fast to me, at least.

What happens when we leave threads open is that others get involved with their own questions - sometimes related, often not.  This makes the thread very, very hard to follow - not just for us, but for other community members.  Who is getting help? What’s the current question?  Is this really related to the original question(s)?

By resolving threads, we keep the threads hopefully more on topic and more clear to both those receiving help (either actively or as lurkers) and those offering help.

I am sorry that this leaves a bad feeling for you; but it does help us keep the forums on track and ensure that those that need help are receiving it.  It certainly isn’t intended to feel that way.  Is there a way that you feel we could improve them and still avoid some of the aforementioned pitfalls?

Thank you!

Thanks for the reply…

So, yeah, it does feel abrupt. The conversation has been closed. I think your choice has been to control the conversation, as a way to manage the forums, or more accurately, to manage the “support ticket”. Forums are an open conversation-open to the public. If you want to bring the community love back, one thing I would suggest is to not close threads so quickly. Perhaps having better guidelines, more accessible. One one forum I managed, we had the principles to follow on the footer of every page (the forum is closed now, it had 15,000 members and was active for 10 years).

Perhaps if you have 1 area that you treat as “support tickets” and perhaps calling that area actually “support Tickets” so it is clearer. Make it clear that you close those as soon as it is posted as resolved.

Honestly, I often will post something is resolved, and then often the next day, or the next week, I am still working on integrating the issue, and I go back, and the forum is closed. I find it frustrating and often choose not to start a new thread. Sometimes I do, but, it definitely thwarts my involvement.

The other thing I have seen done, is that when someone does divert the thread, a moderator can split the thread. It involves having the time to do stuff like that, time and resources. And, it needs to be done with care… because that can also feel like someone else is controlling the conversation.

Managing support and creating community on a forum is tricky business. I would say, since version 2, there have been a number of ways that EL has tamped down and controlled the conversations, many of which have been discussed in the other thread about support staff.
http://ellislab.com/forums/viewthread/185049/

It all feels like you are trying to deal with alot of growth, these are strategies that are not going to work long term.

I think you have to trust your community more, and show them how to interact, through example. Make it easy for them to do it right, correct them *gently* when they hijack a thread, (you) split the thread and explain the expectation. Also, bringing on more moderators. My best recommendation is to bring on moderators from the community, people who already are demonstrating the behavior you are looking for… good leadership, constructive critism, helpful to new members, showing them the way EL does things. I never had people “apply” to be a moderator, I always hand picked them from the forums (they were already showing the behavior I wanted to florish on the forums). At one point, I had 12 volunteer moderators. They get a leadership role in a company that they love, they get a T-shirt, some other bonuses… and they commit to moderate 1 area of the forum. The agree to visit it daily and participate. I never ever hired someone who asked me to be a moderator.

You could do it with staffing as well.
Those are my suggestions.

Hi, Evoir -

We are reviewing our forum tools, so hopefully some of these things are areas that we can address as we re-work those tools to be more in-line with a support community.  I think that’s one part of it.

Based on what you said, I have some ideas to chew on for making this an easier experience and avoiding the pitfalls.  So thank you for beginning this discussion.

A number of years ago, myself and 2 others were made moderators (prior to being employed).  Our experience with that was that it didn’t work: I’m still here, but the others just ended up not having the time to be moderators.  That experience has been a deterrent to trying it again; however, it may be worth reconsidering.  I will make sure to think through that with the team.

And ultimately you’re right, managing a large community that combines both first-party support and community help is a tricky business.  We’re working on refining both our tools and our processes to make this a more enjoyable experience.  These things do take time, but they are high priorities for us.

I hope you will share any other feedback you may have. =)

Lisa,

Not sure exactly what happened, but I would say that bringing you on as a moderator was successful! If EL only did that with three, it’s hard to see the ratio of success.

I would have the current moderators nominate community members to be moderators, all behind the scenes. Then, once we had a few, I would send out an email, or a private message and begin the conversation that way. Also, we had a private moderators forum (that we didn’t talk about on the public forums) but was a special treat for the moderators to hang out in. We called it the Mod Squad area. Maybe a free software licence after a certain time of being a moderator would help?

I’m glad you guys are focusing on your support systems and community. I’ve bumped into trouble a few times recently on your forums and had temper tantrums because things didn’t go my way. The good news is that I love your software and want to be sure that it doesn’t become some exclusive thing. I want to keep it accessible.

Places that do really great support on forums (that I have experienced):

Futurequest Forums
FutureQuest is a hosting company and deals with a lot of technical issues.
FQ does this all with staff. I think they have a virtual staff that live all over the country and someone is always available, around the clock. The community kicks in, more in the past. They close threads that have been inactive after 90 days I think. They do this so people do not find a 2 year old thread and resurrect it… But, their support style is very good. The also have a separate ticket system for private support. The forums used to be more lively, when Deb was running them. But, they give really awesome support.

I have my own VPS and barely use FQ any more. But they are an excellent hosting company, and I say that based on their support systems, really.

Freshbooks Forums: It’s been a while since I’ve used their forums, but Freshbooks has the best support. This is really their focus, and it shows. (Now, granted, they are not dealing with as many technical support issues, because they are a hosted solution SAS) Not only can you call them and a knowledgeable human answers the phone in a happy voice, but it also happens on their forums. They are quick to respond and helpful. I know that Freshbooks has EVERYONE doing shifts answering the phones, as they want everyone to have first hand knowledge of what kinds of questions their customers are asking.

Doesn’t hurt that Freshbooks has taken me to dinner 3x so far. They LOVE connecting with their userbase. Every time they are in town, they organize a dinner. Last time there were like 75 people there. It’s pretty cool. They do this all over the country when they travel for diff reasons.

Might be worth touching base with these companies and learning from their models.