Thread

Hi there. I was actually trying to understand whether WP is just as the same as EE. However with the given discussion above,I am now starting to study more of which should I use for CMS.
Tell you honestly I just downloaded WP and stopped,maybe I could park my thoughts first and read more about EE.

Continuing my highlighting of hot UX in CMSs: http://www.d7ux.org/

Drupal 7 is being redesigned by the brilliant Information Designer Mark Boulton (an EE user) 

They are getting very forward thinking and very smart.  We should be so smart to pay attention to what they are doing.  A bit on their process (on his EE site 😊 ) :

http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/drupal7ux_we_need_you_now/

Well. To be honest. I have tried these things but when i got hooked into EE it just took me away from others. Nowadays i just keep installing other just to see what they have. But: focusing is more important than to be nice =) I mean i focus into EE. Ok, if you can handle everything and everytime with all the WPs and Drupals, that is more than good for the business of yours. Even that i have been pain in the azz here sometimes - i dont have more to say than: EE is all we need! (yes, i do not know anything about 2.0 but I Believe and have trust on the future).

Peace
- Pete

All well and fine, but looking at what other folks are doing to innovate is not loosing focus- it’s keeping educated on the possibilities.  EE gained a lot of popularity based on the user experience and development process.  As WP and Drupal innovate in those areas- we have to be aware of what they are doing.

Yes very !important! i agree!

Hello all, I haven’t posted here in the longest time, but this thread definitely got my attention.

I came over to EE back in 2004. I had been blogging for two years on Movable Type, and was fed up with all the rebuilding, and comment spam.  EE was a dream! I recommended it to all my friends and built several web sites with it.

But then WP 2 came along and completely lured me away.  For years, it had been this struggling, cobbled-together PHP platform and suddenly, it was really REALLY nice!  I found myself falling in love with the ease of use (especially in the admin), and with a few plugins, it was capable of doing everything my old EE blog had done.  Plus it was free. That was a biggie with me, as I was annoyed with having to “renew” my EE license each year, when I’d already shelled out big bucks for it.

And this is just my opinion..EE has forgotten about the blogger.  It’s become elitist in the sense that it caters mostly to developers and high-end designers.  This is very sad, because it was bloggers that put it on the map in the first place. And all this waiting around for version 2.0. has gone beyond ridiculous.  Nobody should have to wait THREE YEARS for an upgrade. That’s where WP really beats EE. WP actually has enough respect for its users to put THEM first. It doesn’t just cater to a small elitist minority, or the whims of the developers.

Recently, I moved a client of mine off EE and onto WP.  This was because, despite having kept her EE install up to date, it kept running slower and slower, and generating server 500 errors that even the web host could not figure out.  I say this is because EE simply hasn’t kept up with the times, and that’s just wrong.  As much as EE costs, there’s no excuse for that.

I’m sure this post will ruffle a few feathers, but I won’t apologize for that.  If anything, the EE developers should apologize to all of you for this eternal wait for the next version.  At the rate it’s currently going, the world may very well end first.

Well, back to my shiny, happy current WP install.

As you were.

Well, I do like WordPress. And I agree with you that the Admin CP in WP is very nice. I’d say it’s nicer and more intuitive than the current EE Admin panel. However, I do think you’re somewhat comparing Apples to Oranges. ExpressionEngine, as I interpret it, does not cater to the same audience as WordPress does. WordPress is intended to be a simple, flexible blogging platform. The good thing is, you can extend it with gazillions of plugins to get features that make it much more than a blogging tool.

But, EE is not a blogging tool. At least not since I’ve used it. One of the main reasons I don’t use WordPress for my own work (I do use it occasionally for clients) is because of the amount of upgrades one has to make. Almost monthly, you have to upgrade your installation. With EE, it happens every few moons. You could say this is bad, but I think it is due to EE being a more secure system, hence the need for bug fix releases is not that often needed.

EE allows you to put the pieces together as you want them. It takes more time, more preparation and understanding in what you actually intend on doing with it.

In a way, I’d say EE and WordPress are like building a house from scratch vs. getting a pre-built house. One has far more control with the former, but the latter may be more convenient and certainly less time consuming, unless you want to extend and heavily customise it.
I prefer creating houses for the most part, because I like to have as much control over every output as possible, and minimum maintenance.

I think both management systems are fantastic, but they are not meant for the same purposes or audience.

I also do not think that taking time to rebuild a system from scratch - as is the case for EE2 - is a sign of disrespecting users. A complete rewrite takes time, and I’d rather wait a year, or two, for a completely new system, than being served something that will have all kinds of “teething troubles” because of a premature release.

Wordpress has its advantages - EE has its advantages. It all depends on what you want to do with it. I think EE has a better community functionality than WP.

Total agreement.

I manage a few WordPress sites which run very well. WP has come a long way, and the user interface is a delight. A site can be up and running very fast, relative to a custom job via EE. That said, unless you’re a PHP guru and designed the theme yourself, customizing a WP site can be an exercise in frustration.

Different strokes for different folks. Or, as my father said, ‘Different tools for different fools.’

Me, as a EE supafan (so far so good) WP is out of my toolbox atm. Only because i want to focus to one appl. As we all know, EE is growing and 3rd parry addons are also. Lately i’ve seen many post that includes a word “extension” and “plugin” - So if we can read between the lines, when EE2.0 comes out eventually, it will get addons faster than ever, i think. So my humble conclusion is: 2-3 years is a long time to wait for something to happend but, when it happends i think ALL within EE community will have the opportunity to boost up their sites with upcoming addons what so ever.

I’m more “out-of-the-box” user, been that always. Lately i have been buying these modules and extensions because i kind of am better when it comes to understanding what EE is and what you can do with it.

After my first year (btw. i read my old post few days ago and got few good laughs) with EE was totally mess. I tried to do too much. Ok, i for sure, read some of the docs, did my search and so on, but for me it was a war againts Gozilla. Finally, little by little the basics are getting in my head, finally i can think instatly if i get an idea, that how i can make it happend with EE.

Ok, there is plenty of things left that i’m not using and those are the most important parts of EE - Still, by doing my personal, no-meaning projects i learn, i see, and i get those lightbulbs.

So, therefore i made my decision to focus only to EE. I’m not sure where that leads, but i have a strong feeling it leads me to be better web designer, to be able to do dynamic, complex websites with all kind of groovy stuff in it and so on. This is my personal decision, to hang with EE, even that sometimes EL Team takes me very wrong and i can be The Pain in The Azz. I have learned a lot, i have seen a lot and i just like EE that much that even there is lack of this and that’s in Forum Module etc. i try to manage. Think: When EE2.0 comes out, how long it takes that forums are full of fresh ideas, working solutions.

And never ever forget, that here you get help to your problems. Here you get solutions, you get the code that you might be looking. Was it directly to EE, or was it CSS and other!

I have posted more than zillion FR, support posts and so on, most of my problems has been solved. Only few of those still keeps my head spinning “why it doesnt work”. Few…only!

Im not saying that EE is best ever but it will get better, there is EE2.0 coming.

I dont want to put my opinions of what are the downsides of EE here cos everyone has their own needs, and own downsides. I keep hoping that these things that are missing or arent possbile atm. that they will be solved some day. Before that i just have to deal with the pack i now have..

Peace
- Pete who didnt read what he wrote =)

Different tools for different fools.
Not every CMS is created equally.
Blogging -vs Content Management.

This will wage on for ever and ever, won’t it?

EE caters to different types of developers, clients, needs, etc.
WordPress is for blogging. It is a blogging platform.

Just for hoots, I looked it up on Wikipedia.
I recommend everyone read that, if you are confused as to the purpose/intent of ExpressionEngine.

By definition, EE can also be used as a blogging tool. It just so happens that not every EE user uses it that way.
And as for WP2.8 being super pizzazz & all that jazz? Well, that’s for your to enjoy and become triumphant with. But when you realize how short it becomes when you need to do this, or that, and EE could do it in a heartbeat. When you realize how painful it is to get support for a free product, or when you get TOO many answers to your plea ...

aw heck, I love my EE. So do 99% of the users here.
If you love WP, so be it. If you love EE, mwah to you too.
Otherwise, realize everyone uses a different tool, hm? Plain & simple 😊

Thats not what this discussion is about.  Not about the ‘purpose’ of each software.  That is a rudimentary discussion and the answers are obvious that one is more appropriate than the other depending on your initial goals. Don’t patronize your fellow developers by sending a wikipedia link. Wordpress is better at blogging because they have made advances in content management and user experience- true design and technology advancements that are just better- at blogging and content management.

That’s what’s interesting about it for ExpressionEngine and its internal and third party developers.  Same goes for the design process that drupal 7 is going through.  EE is absolutely fabulous and is innovating too- highlighting what is fantastic about others doesn’t take away from EE or mean that EE can’t do those things- it means EE has new sources for inspiration and design. 

The publish page for a complex weblog in EE looks like an endless IRS form- I don’t think moving beyond that would hurt EE one bit.  One reason I can’t wait for 2.0.

Thats not what this discussion is about.  Not about the ‘purpose’ of each software.

Perhaps, but in any comparison of one product’s features vs. another product’s features, ‘purpose’ will play a role, no?

Don’t patronize your fellow developers by sending a wikipedia link. Wordpress is better at blogging because they have made advances in content management and user experience- true design and technology advancements that are just better- at blogging and content management.

Chill a bit. I didn’t detect that Organized Fellow was patronizing anyone; just pointing out a major distinction (and perhaps defending the faith), which may not be obvious to all since both EE and WP play in the ‘blog’ and the ‘CMS’ fields. As to which is better at ‘blogging’ it will all depend on a variety of factors, not just the feature set of one vs. the other.

That’s what’s interesting about it for ExpressionEngine and its internal and third party developers.  Same goes for the design process that drupal 7 is going through.  EE is absolutely fabulous and is innovating too- highlighting what is fantastic about others doesn’t take away from EE or mean that EE can’t do those things- it means EE has new sources for inspiration and design.

Total agreement here. It never should be a ‘us vs. them’ equation. It’s about building and using a tool that does the job appropriately.  That said, there are many aspects of WP I’d like to see in EE. Likewise, there’s plenty of what EE does that would improve WP.

The publish page for a complex weblog in EE looks like an endless IRS form- I don’t think moving beyond that would hurt EE one bit.  One reason I can’t wait for 2.0.

Funny, and with more than a little truth. Though, as an experienced WP user, and an admirer of the new WP 2.8 CP UI, it’s becoming as busy as a state unemployment form. Fulfilled feature requests tend to complexify (I made that up) the user interface.

... I love EE as a CMS but it is rapidly falling behind as a blogging platform.

It is not a blogging platform.

I hope not to patronize you nor anyone else, but:

“ExpressionEngine is a flexible, feature-rich content management system that empowers thousands of individuals, organizations, and companies around the world to easily manage their website.”

Also:

“ExpressionEngine manages our membership, runs our blogs, powers our community forums, our knowledge-base, our wiki, our contact forms, our search engine, our… everything!”

Blogs is mentioned in there. The difference between WP and EE, is that EE can do the above natively. Blog, forum, wiki, knowledgebase, forms, search. At its core. It’s able to do that, because that’s what it does.
WP, to my understanding, as I don’t use it, can ALSO do the above, but not without alot of arm-pulling and leg-breaking. MEANING, you need plugins and yet more plugins to get it to do what you need done.
(Not being a WP user has made me blind, yes, but I’ve discovered a tool that not only is a tool - it is a toolbelt! 😊 )

Look just come on guys and be straight up, I believe the OP is right and these are much needed improvements I hope are in 2.0. Yes you all can state that WP is this and that but at the end of that road it kicks EE’s butt in some areas.

I have yet to come across anything that I needed done that I could NOT do with EE. Either with clever use of embeds, global variables, or relationships. Even a properly done query does magic!
As a last resort, I’ll install a plugin, extension, or module. But as a last resort.

I’m not involved with EE in any way, other than being a very happy user.
I’ll bet you that even with the release of 2.0 (whenever that may be), some users will be upset or have some negative opinions about the lack of XYZ, or that ABC wasn’t implemented.

While the developers of EE go to great lengths to take what we, the users, want, they can’t add everything we want.
However, keep in mind that this endless comparison of WordPress to ExpressionEngine, Drupal to ExpressionEngine, ModX to ExpressionEngine, Joomla to ExpressionEngine, QWERTY to ExpressionEngine, etc. etc.
It’s all just meaninless banter that gets no where.

Some folks have their preferred CMS, while others have theirs.
I like Nissan. Joe over there likes Ford.
Robert likes DeWALT powertools, Chuck likes Makita.
You like chicken tamales, I like pork.

To each his own.

... Don’t patronize your fellow developers by sending a wikipedia link ...

My apologies for sharing some information for the uninformed.
What is Web2.0? Not everyone knows.
What is Blogging? Now everyone knows. Well, not everyone knows its proper definition.

I do apologize if I upset you or anyone else with my attempts at sarcasm & enlightenment.
As gramps said, I am defending the faith.
EE takes alot of criticism.

... Wordpress is better at blogging because they have made advances in content management and user experience- true design and technology advancements that are just better- at blogging and content management. EE is absolutely fabulous and is innovating too- highlighting what is fantastic about others doesn’t take away from EE or mean that EE can’t do those things- it means EE has new sources for inspiration and design.

It’s nice that WP is better at blogging.
EE is better at everything else.

... The publish page for a complex weblog in EE looks like an endless IRS form ...

LMAO I loved that part.

Whew!

I’m tired. But, kudos. Spot on.

I’m not involved with EE in any way, other than being a very happy user.
I’ll bet you that even with the release of 2.0 (whenever that may be), some users will be upset or have some negative opinions about the lack of XYZ, or that ABC wasn’t implemented.

“Whenever that may be” was my point, exactly.  And yes, some users will probably be upset, as well they should be.  After all, they waited THREE YEARS for it!

Of course, you’re all entitled to your own thoughts and opinions; if I’m going to spend tons of money on a license, I expect development to move faster than a glacier. That’s only fair.

As for WP “coming up short”, that’s just nonsense. It’s a wonderful product with a beautiful, uncomplicated interface that is easy to use.  That’s what wins people over. Just ask Mozilla.  😉