Thread

Pointing some other produces failure does not justify lack of desire to improve your product. Sounds like somEonE who is just happy to be placed 3rd or 4th and don’t care to ever be 1st as long as they are ‘up there’.

EE is a great niche product but I have also noted before that there just doesn’t seem to be a lot of drive to really push this product to the next level.

Yes software development is complicated etc etc, but EE2 is just taking too long.

Yes software development is complicated etc etc, but EE2 is just taking too long.

Totally agreed and maybe all we need is our hands on it…people are anxious,impatient and ultimately angry seeing free alternatives surpass the product they paid for.

Also…I think that EE2.0 will still disappoint end user when it comes to publishing - from preview management interface looks better but content composition will still be sad old textarea - a great turn off for bloggers or frequent content/article publishers.
So close…yet so far.

...when you go out to buy a car…there are expectations about this product and what it should do for you. Coming back home with tires, seats, wheel and someone’s note saying “hey the good news is you can customize it how you like it” - yay what a deal.

Yes, I feel just like that. Or like someone who’s bought a new phone, say, which everyone tells me does amazing things - but they’re no good to me because I’ve no idea even how to work out what they are. I’d prefer a phone that has fewer features, if the ones it has I can actually use.

With EE you really have to specify to your developer what exactly you would like to have control over…eg. “add links/navigation to your pages”, “switch between 2-3 column layouts” etc…otherwise you get the control over standard settings seen in the backend - which depending on the template design may not even reflect much visual change…. It is not a secret, for blogging focused sites nothing beats WP. For a custom looking/functioning site with work flow and process logic of your choice then EE.

The trouble is, I don’t even understand a lot of that. How do I know to say what work flow and process logic I want, when I’ve no idea what they are?

I know I’m going on, but as a user, clarity, simplicity, ease of use and an ability to change things myself easily are so valuable that whoever can offer them to me has a massive competitive advantage.

If EE were as easy for me to use as WP, then assuming you guys are right that it’s more flexible, etc., than alternatives, then it’d definitely be worth the money I’ve already paid to have my site the way it is. But as things stand, I don’t think I’ve had good value, really. I know that for a lot less than that - less than £100 in all - I’m getting terrific value from WP. With a very different spend, the two sites are basically equally good from my point of view - my EE site a bit prettier, my WP site easier to use and tweak for me.

The trouble is, I don’t even understand a lot of that. How do I know to say what work flow and process logic I want, when I’ve no idea what they are?

That’s a different issue, of course. Experience comes with a price. If you want to drive a car and you don’t know how, it’s best not to run out and buy a Porsche. Learn to drive on something less exotic. You might find that a Toyota Corolla works just fine for your needs. After learning to drive the Corolla, and, through experience, you realize it’s not for you—not so fast, not so cool, not a babe magnet, or whatever—then start looking at the more exotic vehicles.

I know I’m going on, but as a user, clarity, simplicity, ease of use and an ability to change things myself easily are so valuable that whoever can offer them to me has a massive competitive advantage.

That sounds like WP.

I’m getting terrific value from WP. With a very different spend, the two sites are basically equally good from my point of view - my EE site a bit prettier, my WP site easier to use and tweak for me.

That sounds like WP is a good fit for a Corolla driver. I still manage a few WP sites and they work fine. Lots of widgets and plugin stuff available. Wholesale design changes are a click and a tweak away. But, try to make a two column site go to three columns and drop in ads where you want instead of where you have to, and the difference between the Corolla and Porsche becomes more apparent.

Learn to drive first. Then learn to drive fast.

(not intended to be snarky; but it seems as if you’re going to do better walking with WP before running with EE)

To make EE do what WP does easily will usually take a lot of work.

Agreed one hundred percent!

To make WP do what EE does easily will, strangely enough, take a lot of work.

I’m afraid it takes a little bit more than “a lot of work”. I’d call it nearly impossible if your benchmark factor is “easily”.

and to all, it’s simple
 

I need == Blogging Platform == Wordpress
 

I need > Blogging Platform == ExpressionEngine
 

you do the maths 😉

What is the power? What is the “>”. I’d like specifics, not just the general message that I can do “anything”. What are examples of “anything”?

That would help someone like me to understand whether it’s right to stay with EE. What are these things I could do that would make WP inadequate?

What is the power? What is the “>”. I’d like specifics, not just the general message that I can do “anything”. What are examples of “anything”?

That would help someone like me to understand whether it’s right to stay with EE. What are these things I could do that would make WP inadequate?

I need == Blogging Platform == Wordpress
 
means

Wordpress will satisfy a person who says “All I need is a blogging platform that will make my life easier with automatic updates, ready made themes and great WYSIWYG editor”

and
 
I need > Blogging Platform == ExpressionEngine

means

Actually, I need bit more than a blogging platform which will extend beyond anything and has a decent community around it. So, really I should support the good lads at EllisLab and purchase ExpressionEngine.

If you outline your current or future needs Carl (a part from what you’ve said above), we’re always happy to provide advice.

Thanks, Cem. You’re helping a great deal already in fact.

I’m not being snarky (sorry if it sounds like that, it’s not meant) but in a way your reply illustrates the problem precisely - you haven’t given me any specific example of what “> blogging platform” might mean or include. How can I know whether I want it if I’ve no idea what it is?

Maybe there are some brilliant things EE can do for my blog, but I don’t know what they are and I’m not going to discover them alone. I’m getting the feeling I never should have been on EE in the first place, and if I want any real ability to own my future I should be moving to WP.

No problem Carl, I like a good discussion.

First read the following on blogging platform.

You will find WordPress listed there but not ExpressionEngine. Your website http://carlgardner.co.uk/ satisfies all the requirements listed on that link. Weblogs for opinion and reviews, pages module or just another weblog for static pages like about, contact. Lastly links entries done via categories or a separate weblog. It’s beautifully designed and well executed -with one minor bug, if you click on about or contact and want to view link categories (via MORE link) you get no results due to url pointing to site template rather then links template.

So, if all you need is what you have and don’t plan to say add a forum, e-commerce for your new book 😉, newsletter perhaps or something else I can’t even think of either, then you could have the site done with WordPress which would be my personal advice as well. But our clients often come up with new ideas/requests that we know WordPress won’t be satisfactory from development or cost point in the log run.

circles circles circles - does anyone else think this is going around in circles?

1. if i had a client though did not know how to do anything more than than add an italics tag, yet wanted to control the content on their own site. I too would use EE and lock down that admin user to be able to do only the basic stuff as otherwise they will break the site (and then not be willing to pay for someone to fix it).

2. if that client did not want to pay for professional services to modify either system to a custom level… They go learn it yourself, core is free, try it out, read the docs, learn. That is how the rest of us did it. Why should i the paid professional give up my paid time, and experience to someone that does not want to pay.

3. if you want a free system, a design like 1000 others as you do not feel what you are putting on your blog deserves to stand out as different and important, if you do not want control over your layout (you are limited to how the template presents it as you have no ability to modify it and and no interest in learning), if you are happy with the way the system inserts images (pre styled in many cases), if you are happy with the way media works for linking in files, if you are happy to be at the mercy of the template for your SEO optimisation, etc… Then go for WP and what are you still doing here when you could have had a site up by now.

4. if by all miracles you can stop wasting your own time saying the same thing over and over again and choose to go off and learn - then WP and EE can be so much more for you. Once educated then you can make an educated decision (which is what many people here have been doing). In their cases they say you choose by scenario - each project needs something different.

And that car analogy was quite comical… but completely stupid… but if you must… this is more appropriate.

Mr A, buys a Nissan Skyline, it is great. He wants it to be better, so buys a spoiler, slaps a K&N air filter on it, puts some go fast stripes on it!!! He is happy.

Mr B, buys a Nissan Skyline, but feels he needs it more suited to his needs. He also buys the trim above, but then starts learning more about the car and its setup - he lowers it, stiffens the springs, tunes the engine, adjusts the timing, adjusts gear ratio’s…etc…

Mr A is very happy with his car and on the road limited to speed limits sees no difference as Mr B goes at the same speed. After a bit of drunken banter they decide to go on the track (next day, sober of course!). Mr B beats Mr A… Mr A does not understand why, so Mr B begins to explain why but Mr A keeps insisting that what he did was easier… Mr B chuckles to himself content with his setup and his track win, wanders off while Mr A continues to rant at the others around him.

Apologies to any ladies out there i am not sexist, you can drive and setup a car as well!!! But i am quite happy being Mr Grumpy, as this topic is just pointless now…

And predicting the response of what can EE do that WP can’t - go look in the forums at some launched sites and tell me how you would do that with WP - for example:
http://garyplayer.com/
http://www.campaignmonitor.com/
http://www.nibbledish.com/

and plenty others i don;t know about but i am sure others will chime in with…

in the mean time, mr grumpy is going back to telling kids to get off my lawn and shaking his head a this long, drawn out, post.

Thanks, Nevsie. Nice, welcoming tone.

I made it clear I am prepared to pay for people to help me, and have done. I also want to get what I think I’ve paid for.

Anyway, at least you pointed me to some sites I can look at.

Sounds as though I’ve outstayed my welcome at EE forums. Thanks for people’s helpful comments.

no… you are more than welcome… yes i was being grumpy as there were many people saying the same thing over and over again - i did not pick anyone out… i just presented scenarios.

But the long and the short of it is as you put it “you get what you pay for”. Yes WP is great, especially as it is free. Yes EE is great even for the paid amount. How much you pay a developer and how much that developer does is down to your contract…
You could pay local rates, international rates, or even offshore developer rates (India, Russia, etc). All prices vary, and the developer you get will vary, and the developed site you get will vary. But none of these factors really relate to the products!!!

but to quote you specificaly

Yes, I feel just like that. Or like someone who’s bought a new phone, say, which everyone tells me does amazing things - but they’re no good to me because I’ve no idea even how to work out what they are. I’d prefer a phone that has fewer features, if the ones it has I can actually use.

this is my point on learning. you say it has features, but you cannot use them, and do not know how to learn to use… Ask specific questions about features and get advice on how to use them… Or if grumpy people like me are about try looking in the manual first.

You point on features… What features do you specifically require. We could go on a list the billion advantages we feel EE has - but they will most likely be irrelevant as they are not features that you want.

you are talking about moving away from EE… for what reason… what is it that your missing, what is it that is hard? Could it possibly be the case that the developer did not set it up to suit your skills and abilities (like point 1. i made above) - is it the system or is the setup?

can you see why i started chanting circles circles circles. we are right back at the beginning again. Now to continue being grumpy elsewhere.

I like mr grumpy

🐍

Carl I hope you don’t leave this community for the sake of nevsie’s new persona. 😊

And that car analogy was quite comical…but completely stupid… but if you must… this is more appropriate.

Thanks for the insult but I don’t think so. Don’t do anything to your cars just sit in them and drive.
EE is not as comfortable for the driver. There is no power steering and seat is made out of wood compared to WP. The fact that is has ‘potential’ or tons of after market parts to make into a batmobile does nothing…the fact that has jet engine inside and faster than any luxury car does nothing….
Why? Because of that stinking wooden seat and lack of power steering is just is not as comfortable to drive.

Sure, you can take it somewhere and they will ‘fix it’ for you…but why even have to do that to a product I just bought?

Forget it, I care only as much as EllisLab.
[ inset coin to continue ]

Pew! I smell a dead horse. It seems to have been dead quite awhile. Anyone else want to practice their horse beating skills?

:roll: