Thread

Hey folks, I’m posting this here because its the only place that I know that is frequented (if not dominated) by Mac users. 😊

I’m a Windows guy, and I seriously doubt that will change anytime soon. Also, I currently have a very powerful PC, so I don’t need a new one at the moment. That said, I’m seriously considering buying a Mac (desktop only, I hate laptops and already own one).

I was planning to get a Mini, but the price goes up considerably (to over $1,000) when it is appropriately configured. I also looked at the 24-inch iMac, which seems to be a much better PC for only about $400 more. What I really dislike about the iMac is that you can’t buy it without a monitor. That seems incredibly stupid to me (not to mention environmentally unfriendly). I’ve got a spare 24” LCD sitting around and I don’t need another one. Also, I’d really rather just share my 27” PC monitor with the Mac. If they offered an iMac w/o the monitor, I’d go with that right away.

Basically, I just want this to play around with and so that I can use the Mac version of Excel (I’ll get that free from my employer). I’m also interested in iWork’s Numbers, so I can add that to my Excel blog. I’m sure that I can find other uses once I have it (maybe develop an App for the iPhone).

So, with that long preamble out of the way, I have a couple of questions:

1) Is the iMac that much better than the Mini? Basically, the iMac seems to have a faster processor, and more disk space. I also want 4GB of RAM (just because, that is my standard these days). Which would you recommend.

2) I hear that the Mini makes for an Apple TV on steroids if I don’t use it for anything else, so I guess that’s a plus.

3) If I go for the Mini, can you recommend a KVM switch (don’t really need the video part as I would use a direct connection) that works well? I’ve heard all kinds of bad stories about KVMs, in general, not working well. This is something that I wouldn’t need with the iMac, so that would save money.

4) Where is the best place to purchase? I think that I’ll do best (using the academic discount, which isn’t much) from the online Apple store. I have the feeling that Apple doesn’t allow selling for less than MSRP.

Thanks for any input and other advice that you can offer.

I was planning to get a Mini, but the price goes up considerably (to over $1,000) when it is appropriately configured.

My used Mac Mini (which is more than sufficient for Numbers and as a media Server) cost me around $600 after buying it off of eBay and upgrading the HD and RAM.

1) Is the iMac that much better than the Mini? Basically, the iMac seems to have a faster processor, and more disk space. I also want 4GB of RAM (just because, that is my standard these days). Which would you recommend.

If aren’t doing any big video editing, the iMac isn’t required. Any can attach any monitor to the Mini or run it headless, like I do.

2) I hear that the Mini makes for an Apple TV on steroids if I don’t use it for anything else, so I guess that’s a plus.

Yup, that’s what I use mine for.

3) If I go for the Mini, can you recommend a KVM switch (don’t really need the video part as I would use a direct connection) that works well? I’ve heard all kinds of bad stories about KVMs, in general, not working well. This is something that I wouldn’t need with the iMac, so that would save money.

If you are using other computers at the same time, why not just run it headless and use either VNC or a program that lets you share keyboard, screen and mouse (the name escapes me at the moment?

4) Where is the best place to purchase? I think that I’ll do best (using the academic discount, which isn’t much) from the online Apple store. I have the feeling that Apple doesn’t allow selling for less than MSRP.

If you don’t mind buying used (and sometimes even new), I have bought machines off of Craigslist and eBay with no issues.

There are lots of ‘depends’ in this scenario. Generally speaking, the iMac line is faster than the Mac mini line. Add iMac features to a Mac mini and the price differential is nominal.

1) Is the iMac that much better than the Mini? Basically, the iMac seems to have a faster processor, and more disk space. I also want 4GB of RAM (just because, that is my standard these days). Which would you recommend.

The iMac is faster, has more RAM, has larger hard drives, and better graphic card options. Spec out a Mac mini the way you want and compare it to a comparably equipped iMac.

2) I hear that the Mini makes for an Apple TV on steroids if I don’t use it for anything else, so I guess that’s a plus.

Do you want an AppleTV? The Mac mini won’t be able to do all that an AppleTV can already do, although the mini makes for a nice, though expensive, DVR.

3) If I go for the Mini, can you recommend a KVM switch (don’t really need the video part as I would use a direct connection) that works well? I’ve heard all kinds of bad stories about KVMs, in general, not working well. This is something that I wouldn’t need with the iMac, so that would save money.

My experiences with KVM switches, Mac or PC, have not been good. There’s always a gotcha someplace, and seldom worth the modest cost of a keyboard, mouse, and display.

4) Where is the best place to purchase? I think that I’ll do best (using the academic discount, which isn’t much) from the online Apple store. I have the feeling that Apple doesn’t allow selling for less than MSRP.

Apple does allow for sales less than retail, but the amount is nominal. Academic discounts may be difficult to beat.

Back to the math (at retail):

A low end Mac mini without keyboard/display/mouse and 4 gigs of RAM - $749.

The low end 24-inch iMac with 4 gigs RAM, faster CPU, bigger drive, same graphics is double the Mac mini price at $1,499.

From what I know you can easily get a 24-inch display, keyboard, mouse for about $300 - $400 (depends on quality), making the Mac mini $1,050, or only $450 less than the mid-range iMac. If you already have a D/K/M, then you save money.

As to whether including a screen in the iMac is a good idea or not is a moot point. All iMacs since 1998 have a built-in screen. I’ve owned a dozen iMac models through the years and never had a screen fail. When something goes, it’s usually the hard drive. For most PC or Mac users, whenever anything goes, the machine still needs to be repaired.

I’ve owned Macs since the original 128k and my basic rules still hold strong. Buy what you want, get the most RAM you can get, get the largest hard drive you can get, use it for three to five years, sell it. The cost of a Mac is different than the price of a Mac.

UPDATE: The ‘headless’ Mac mini has some merit, depending on your usage. You’ll need VNC from your PC. The Mac has it built-in already.

Thanks for the ideas, guys. Definitely helping me to make up my mind.

If you are using other computers at the same time, why not just run it headless and use either VNC or a program that lets you share keyboard, screen and mouse (the name escapes me at the moment?

Well, I’ll have to look into that. I’ve got a secondary PC that I built about two years ago, and I’ve never tried that. I’ll give that a shot and if it works well, that would probably make me lean towards the Mini.

grumps, thanks for confirming the headless thing.

As to whether including a screen in the iMac is a good idea or not is a moot point.

Yeah, I know. :-( It just seems wasteful. I’ve owned a lot of PCs over the years, but I almost always buy new ones without a monitor. Saves money that way, and I get to use the one I want. Apple could sell an iMac in PC-sized box if they don’t want to cannibalize Mini sales. Seems like that would reduce the price by $200, at least. Also, I’m just surprised that a progressive company like Apple doesn’t see anything wrong with building and later dumping all of those extra monitors. Even I can see that, and I’m not terribly green.

I think I’ll take a trip to the Apple store next week and get a better feel for both machines.

Yeah, I know. :-( It just seems wasteful. I’ve owned a lot of PCs over the years, but I almost always buy new ones without a monitor. Saves money that way, and I get to use the one I want. Apple could sell an iMac in PC-sized box if they don’t want to cannibalize Mini sales. Seems like that would reduce the price by $200, at least. Also, I’m just surprised that a progressive company like Apple doesn’t see anything wrong with building and later dumping all of those extra monitors. Even I can see that, and I’m not terribly green.

It isn’t wasteful for many of Apple’s target market. They want a nice looking computer with great specs that just works. They buy it and never, ever upgrade it. Then give it to their kids. Then sell it on CL to someone like me. Not wasteful at all, IMHO.

Mount it up on the wall and use a wireless keyboard and mouse and you have a nice looking, reasonably priced (for a Mac) setup that is very reliable and looks nice in your living room.

If you are using other computers at the same time, why not just run it headless and use either VNC or a program that lets you share keyboard, screen and mouse (the name escapes me at the moment?

Well, I’ll have to look into that. I’ve got a secondary PC that I built about two years ago, and I’ve never tried that. I’ll give that a shot and if it works well, that would probably make me lean towards the Mini.

I just remember what it is called…Synergy.

It isn’t wasteful for many of Apple’s target market. They want a nice looking computer with great specs that just works. They buy it and never, ever upgrade it. Then give it to their kids. Then sell it on CL to someone like me. Not wasteful at all, IMHO.

Totally agreed. Of all the iMacs I’ve bought through the years, only one made it to recycling. A couple of iMacs from 1998 are still going strong (hand me downs). One lone iMac DV circa 2000 died without an option for resurrection. All the rest are still out there.

Even I can see that, and I’m not terribly green.

Apple isn’t terribly ‘green’ either.  They’ve made a bit of a push as of late but that’s only in response to demands from the environmental lobby.  A lot of their products aren’t particularly green and I don’t think it’s a particularly large concern of theirs.

Apple isn’t terribly ‘green’ either… A lot of their products aren’t particularly green…

Which products are not particularly ‘green?’

Can we keep this on target please? I apologize for taking it off topic.

Can we keep this on target please? I apologize for taking it off topic.

This is The Lounge forum. Topics tend to migrate rapidly.

Erin,

Thanks for the link to Synergy. Now that you mention it, I recall seeing it about a year ago. A quick read of the Synergy FAQ seems to indicate that it doesn’t support monitor sharing. So, it seems like it needs two or more monitors (one per computer). I think that’s why I never tried it before. I have two PCs connected to the same monitor so I didn’t think it would work. If I’m correct, then it would work for my PC and an iMac, but not the Mini (unless I hooked up my spare 24-inch LCD).

Is it possible to re-rout the iMac video to another monitor? If so, I could still use my main monitor, and get the Apple Wireless keyboard and mouse. Obviously, this wouldn’t be the best solution if the iMac’s monitor has to be on in order for the machine to function.

The thing about old Macs being in use forever is really surprising to me. I was reading another forum yesterday and there were people wanting to buy old Macs (non-Intel types), even after they were told that a Mini would outperform it. I guess that adds credence to the idea of buying a Mini, since it should still be usable for many years. Of course, I’ve got an 8 or 9 year old PC that is still “usable.” I just don’t want to use it as it is too slow.

I’m planning a trip to the Apple Store tomorrow.

Thanks again for the help guys.

An Update:

I spent an hour or so at the Apple Store and decided to buy the top o’ the line Mini. They didn’t have it in stock, so I simply ordered it online. It arrived today, straight from China. I’ve been having fun, and very little trouble, playing with it all day.

I haven’t gotten around to using VNC with it yet, but I did get UltraVNC working with two of my PCs. I also have some instructions for using Vine Server on the Mini so that I can control it through my PC. Thanks again for that idea.

I’ve also got file sharing set up over my network. That was made very easy using Network Magic from PureNetworks (Cisco, actually).

I installed Office 2008 (which I get for free), and I have to say that Microsoft completely blew this one. It really sucks compared to Office (any version) on the PC because it is missing so many of the tools that I use all of the time in Excel. I really can’t believe how lousy it is for a power-user. If you just need the basics, then I would have to recommend Open Office or iWork on a Mac. Or, if you need Office, then use VMWare Fusion or Parallels and run it in a Windows VM.

One last question if anybody is still reading this: Is there any good password manager for Macs? I’m addicted to RoboForm on my PCs, and I need something similar that will work in Firefox on the Mac. Unfortunately, RoboForm doesn’t seem to have a Mac version.

Glad you are enjoying the Mac. For your password needs try http://www.agilewebsolutions.com/ - I have not used all its facilities and I did get it in the Macheist bundle last year.

For your password needs try http://www.agilewebsolutions.com/

1Password is highly recommended. Good sync between iPhone and Mac, too. It works fine in most major browsers on the Mac as a plugin, which makes frequent logins much easier. Click. Logged in.