Thread

I’ve done a number of sites, both EE and non-EE and with each one the hardest part for me is quoting a design.  Let me explain…

As most of you know the customer comes to us knowing (at least somewhat) what they want their website to do: blog, contact form, forums, etc. That’s pretty easy to figure out in the way of a price quote. However, when they have little to no clue or suggestion on how it should look, things get really crazy on the pricing front.

But when someone comes to me with no prior site or looking for a total redesign I struggle because I’ve had gone through anywhere from 2 to over 15 mockups before the customer is happy with the design.  With such a wide range I have no clue how to lock down a quote.  I’ve considered many pricing ideas such as 3 mockups for $x and each one beyond that $y, a flat $x per mockup, and so on I have yet to find a system that is fair to both them and me.

I thought I’d see if anyone has already been down this bumpy road and could offer some sage advise on what works for you?

Without going into specific price points, I think the most important thing is to be consistent.  Don’t let prices dictate your value and whether you take on a project.  Assuming your pricing is reasonable, clients will come.  Those that can’t afford it, aren’t for you.

With that said, it’s also important to plan for things to change.  So, I wholeheartedly agree with the setting a set number of mockups in the contract and charging extra beyond that.  You deserve to get paid for the work.  If you do something like “unlimited” designs, the client has incentive to take advantage of your work.

In my experience, most clients don’t have any idea what they want (especially the ones that come in with the exactly what they want, lol).  So, having a limit forces them to make a choice or pay extra.  It forces them to make decisions about what it is that they’re looking for.  Otherwise, you get trapped in an endless circle of revisions.

The best method I’ve found is to give a flat price for design plus X rounds of ammends (depending on how generous you are), any extra amends are charged at an hourly rate. I charge between £## and £## an hour for design & development depending on how established the company is or how complicated the ammends are.

Make sure the client knows that each round of ammends should be well defined. You do not want changes coming through in drips and drabs split over a few days. Let them know that you expect a well formated document/spreadsheet with *ALL* their changes in.

[Mod Edit: Edited out actual pricing.]

Double Post

Thanks guy - GREAT stuff!

Let me ask this - how do you guys get started when they give you almost nothing to go off of?  When you get a client that wants a great site but has absolutely no clue on what they like, how do you start?  I’ve always asked for color and style preferences, URLs of sites that they really like, etc. 

I guess what I’m asking is that when you’re starting from near zero, how do you get to a design that they like without going through a million different mockups, thus breaking their banks and destroying your sanity?

Wireframes. Find out what the clients requirements are before you even think about the design else you will be reworking till the cows come home. Often the requirements of the site lead directly into the design - if you know what you need on each page they you have a good starting point for layout and user journeys.

That’s up to you to try and prize out as much information from the client as you possibly can! If you can’t get anything useful, next look at the type of content the site will have, target audience, features, desired outcome etc - these can offer some clues as to what you should be aiming for with look and presentation.

If you still can’t get any useful information the best approach I’ve found is to tell the client that you can only produce a design based only on what you know. The important point here is that you need to tell the client that you’re essentially “working in the dark”, and unless you come up with a design concept first time, it will cost them a lot of extra money while you keep guessing.

My normal approach to “design” is to only product one concept with up to 3 revisions - I usually factor in enough hours and price to cover the time I spend. If after the 3rd revision it still needs work I then charge my hourly rate. Normally with a good brief I dare say most designers can hit the nail on the head well within a few revisions.

[Mod Edit: Edited out actual pricing.]

Why?

Just a guess: The forum moderator probably edited out actual pricing because it could be construed as an antitrust violation. I noticed that many who posted are in the U.K. Here in the States, any time a group of professionals in a given industry get together and discuss pricing on the record, they are inviting scrutiny from the Justice Department. Such a discussion on a site run by the developer of the software on which they rely (EE) could be especially problematic.

Again, this only my best guess—but a policy against discussing prices would be both pragmatic and consistent with similar companies in the U.S.

Correct. =) We do not allow pricing specifics to be discussed here for legal reasons.

Just a guess: The forum moderator probably edited out actual pricing because it could be construed as an antitrust violation. I noticed that many who posted are in the U.K. Here in the States, any time a group of professionals in a given industry get together and discuss pricing on the record, they are inviting scrutiny from the Justice Department. Such a discussion on a site run by the developer of the software on which they rely (EE) could be especially problematic.

Again, this only my best guess—but a policy against discussing prices would be both pragmatic and consistent with similar companies in the U.S.

Correct. =) We do not allow pricing specifics to be discussed here for legal reasons.

Interesting.  I knew discussing prices wasn’t allowed but didn’t realize there was legal justification for this.  Learn something new every day 😊

It’s one thing that discussion of prices is not allowed. That’s simply a policy decision (and I don’t have a major issue with that). I would love to find out what federal or state laws apply to discussion of rates online. I doubt seriously if there are such laws which prohibit discussion of rates (collusion, yes; discussion, no).

I think Lisa was agreeing to it being a policy, and for the reason that it could represent a legal problem. A legal problem denotes it could cost money were someone to bring suit against any party involved, not just the EE folks. Besides comparing ones pricing and design process with another’s is not practical to the final outcome. The price may be in black and white, but the bias of who gives the most quality and value is that which is percieved by the paying customer. Paying being the keyword 😊
As far as legal concerns going after those who don’t pay is the norm.
Serious we have a large spreadsheet of charges that we base site designs on.

I think Lisa was agreeing to it being a policy, and for the reason that it could represent a legal problem… Man that was wordy, checking with our firm’s lawyers now to be sure this response was adequate.

Appropriate, though. Policy is different than law. And lawsuits are a potential regardless of policy or law. Successful lawsuits can cost a fortune. Unsuccessful lawsuits can cost a fortune, too (both parties). So, it needs to be clear that the reason for the policy (against discussion of pricing/rates et al) is probably to avoid potential litigation issues, rather than breaking a specific law, of which there probably isn’t one regarding discussion, as opposed to collusion.

A big reason too for not discussing monetary charges is the diversity of nationalities represented in the forums. Cost of living represents a different slice of the pie, even in the U.S. - New York city vs. Podunk, Michigan for example, not to pick on anyone from Michigan. 😉