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Friendly URLs and CMS comparison

April 20, 2008 3:02pm

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  • #1 / Apr 20, 2008 3:02pm

    Greenalien

    1 posts

    I’m aware that Expression Engine v2.0 is around the corner. Can anyone tell me if this is flexible enough to handle friendly looking URLs please? My understanding is that v1 doesn’t handle this very well unless that’s changed recently?

    I’ve also been looking at Wordpress, Joomla and Drupal.

    Wordpress is probably the one I’ll go for for my modest needs. Mainly a blog and a list of static pages showcasing products and info. I’ve found a theme I like, and it’s flexible enough to create friendly URLs - which is perfect in fact for both blog and pages. It’s a no mess get-up-and-running solution, albeit potentially less flexible down the road.

    Joomla gave an initially good impression but it seems so convoluted and rigid that I soon crossed this off my list. Each page is assigned to a category/section by the looks of it which seems rigid to me. I just what a tree of articles, however I chose. It’s URL generator is poor too and admin backend generally confusing.

    Drupal seems better with this regard. It has a tree of nodes to represent articles and list of articles. But it’s URL handling seems poor. It’s “friendly urls” option gives ugly urls which includes numeric ids all over the address. An optional plugin which comes supplied allows the URL to be specified for each page - but this has to be fully entered manually for every page and it has no intelligence to it. A third-party plugin creates friendly urls automatically though I havent tried it because it doesnt support the latest version of Drupal - which is the whole reason I wont consider using it even when it does - I dont want something so fundamental to the site to be handled by a third-party plugin, which may or may not support future versions of the CMS. Drupal, although I got the feeling it was more flexible than Joomla (and Wordpress obviously) they put no effort into making it presentable. The admin pages are bland, and the default themes are ugly. Most of the themes seem to mix the admin backend menu into the frontend design which also I hate (Joomla and Wordpress separates them which I prefer) though I understand this can be changed. Third-party themes are very thin on the ground, and a lot of commercial Drupal themes ask x10 typical Joomla costs. Drupal is just too much hassle to get up to speed quickly.

    So that leaves Wordpress and Expression Engine. Although I can get up and running (and setup content) in under an hour with Wordpress, and the URL handling is fantastic, I’ll see how Expression Engine develops in v2. Can anyone give more details or share experience with friendly URLs please?

    I would have to get my hands dirty in Dreamweaver for Expression Engine so would take much longer to get up and running which is yet more time. But have to admit the admin backend in v2 is looking excellent. And the extra flexibility down the road is always nice to have on tap.

    As a side note. A couple of other negative feelings I generally had about Expression Engine when I looked into it a year or so back was the cost. With an open-source CMS for example I can invest time learning it and then use that investment creating any sites as needed in the future. But with Expression Engine after I’ve invested the time learning it, I’m faced with a financial outlay every time I want to make use of it on a new site. I’m not contending that the terms are unreasonable, just that it’s a big negative for me. The cost is reasonable for a one-off website of reasonable size, but I’d feel more comfortable if I had the flexibility to reuse what I learnt without clocking up costs every time. In other words I’d like it to feel more like a tool that I can add to my collection and depend on like Dreamweaver than an ongoing service plan. I don’t know how competing commercial CMS companies compare but it’s a big negative nonetheless for me for something which is essentially a business decision rather than a resource issue given that we install it on our own servers. Tech support could just be limited to the site specified when signing up for example, and forum support thereafter, and tech support per additional site available at cost.

    Anyway, a minor negative was when I glimpsed at the tags used. It uses “weblog” to present all lists or databases if I remember correctly which gave an impression of inflexibility. But that’s just a semantics thing. Still seems odd for a general purpose CMS though.

    So any feedback would be appreciated. No blasting me for my opinions or misunderstandings please especially with the price issue – those were my impressions/feelings and not a demand to change it - I already know the official response by the way after reading a similar question so just treat that part as more feedback.

    If I’m happy with EE’s URLs I’ll probably buy EE for my next site.

  • #2 / Apr 20, 2008 3:34pm

    George Ornbo

    272 posts

    The pages module let’s you specify any URL you want. By default it takes the title of the article. Have you tried the latest version?

  • #3 / Apr 20, 2008 5:08pm

    Ingmar

    29245 posts

    My understanding is that v1 doesn’t handle
    [friendly looking URLs] very well

    That is not what I understand. EE has always had search engine friendly URLs, right out of the box, and you can change most aspects of that behavior.

    But with Expression Engine after I’ve invested the time learning it, I’m faced with a financial outlay every time I want to make use of it on a new site.

    Unless you can make do with EE Core, of course. Oh, and EE2 will be based on CodeIgniter, which already is OS in every sense of the word.

    Anyway, a minor negative was when I glimpsed at the tags used. It uses “weblog” to present all lists or databases if I remember correctly which gave an impression of inflexibility. But that’s just a semantics thing.

    Well, there’s one thing I can confirm: EE2 will do away with the term “weblog”.

  • #4 / May 16, 2008 2:09am

    Ryan M.

    1511 posts

    I’m aware that Expression Engine v2.0 is around the corner. Can anyone tell me if this is flexible enough to handle friendly looking URLs please? My understanding is that v1 doesn’t handle this very well unless that’s changed recently?

    So that leaves Wordpress and Expression Engine. Although I can get up and running (and setup content) in under an hour with Wordpress, and the URL handling is fantastic, I’ll see how Expression Engine develops in v2. Can anyone give more details or share experience with friendly URLs please?

    If I’m happy with EE’s URLs I’ll probably buy EE for my next site.

    I don’t know how you can get any more flexible than what EE does with URL’s. I think you simply haven’t been exposed to them fully - they’re as flexible and friendly as you want to make them. Are the following not friendly URLs? (They’re real, from sites I’ve done on EE, and they read like English, if you ask me):

    http://www.hexarmor.com/products/item/mechanics/hexarmor-4041-nsr/

    http://www.kevinvandam.com/on_tour/tour_tracker/bassmaster_classic_2008/

    Not only that, but you can make up segments to make your page do certain things - out to 9 segments, I believe. So I could do something like http://www.site.com/section/page that might return a picture or something, but then I could set up the page to add a message or whatever I want just by adding segment(s) like: http://www.site.com/section/page/scooby/doo/. Does {segment_3} == “scooby”? Yes? Well, then throw a pic of Scoob in there, etc etc. That is a real basic example, but you catch my drift.

  • #5 / May 16, 2008 4:21am

    Greenalien

    1 posts

    Thanks for the feedback. I decided to put EE on the back burner for the time being until v2 comes out so I’m using Wordpress for now.

    Personally the reason for this is I didn’t find EE as inviting to get up and running as some other CMS software. For example I tried EE out but didnt see how to create a static page. After poking around I find I need to enable a plugin which is disabled by default - I would of thought a site without static pages would be an exception rather than the norm. And even then it wasnt obvious. The other three CMS packages I tried out I felt were clearer in this regard. Then I looked into friendly URLs and I couldnt see an option for that so I’m faced with a long article on the expressionengine site about configuring the .htaccess file. Now at this point it left a sour taste already because I didn’t see why such basic things applicable to most sites felt like mini hurdles which already consumed time.

    Oh, and another thing is I’d of prefered a builtin rich-text editor like the other CMS software do by default. I know one can probably be added, and this is more of a conscious philosophical decision (judging by an interview at SSW) but it’s yet more time getting passed the “basics”.

    I’m sure it’s all simple to EE regulars now and I’m sure they’ll pounce on me saying how stupid I am, but the user friendlyness I felt lacking for first time use/setup. Comparing to Wordpress, creating content for both blog and static pages is immediately obvious, and the user friendly urls is a radio-button away and clear/fully configurable - Wordpress was the only CMS of the four I felt nailed this. Drupal was especially poor too which needed a supplied plugin to enable this for manual-friendly urls, and a third party plugin for auto-friendly urls, so I’m not just picking on EE here. And by friendly, I mean to humans, not just Google.

    At this point I was thinking 1) why has every basic thing so far felt like a hurdle, 2) EE2 is right around the corner anyway and 3) I already have a Wordpress theme I’m happy with. So rather than spend the time reading the tutorials and convert the theme from WP into EE I decided to hold off for a few months until EE2 comes out. It’s not time I can really spare right now and WP is doing the job just fine.

    From the articles I’ve read about EE I do feel its the best choice overall so I’ll definately be revisiting it. But several articles/posts on the net also mentioned about EE’s friendly urls not been as good as it could be.

    With Wordpress by the way, I feel it’s lacking regarding markup tags for static pages and missing what I would consider some essential functionality here. At that point I contemplated giving EE another try because I felt confident EE would probably fair better here, but in the end I just did a clunky workaround to show pages/sub-pages as I wanted them.

    I feel EE could learn from Wordpress’s out-of-the-box experience even though WP is the less powerful of the four CMS packages I tried out. I guess I’m just underwhelmed by the current state of all CMS software right now - I don’t feel any get all the basics right yet. I coded my own CMS with admin backend a few years ago for a different site (mainly because I wanted full control over the tree of info and image manipulation for fancy page headings and photo thumbnails) but definately appreciate how EE would probably make things easier if I were to do that site today. But for the site I’m doing now, WP is just as capable for the time being.

    Looking forward to EE2. Next time I’ll be more patient 😉

  • #6 / May 16, 2008 4:27am

    Ingmar

    29245 posts

    Personally the reason for this is I didn’t find EE as inviting to get up and running as some other CMS software. For example I tried EE out but didnt see how to create a static page. After poking around I find I need to enable a plugin which is disabled by default - I would of thought a site without static pages would be an exception rather than the norm. And even then it wasnt obvious. The other three CMS packages I tried out I felt were clearer in this regard.

    Whatever works for you ...

  • #7 / May 16, 2008 10:25am

    Ryan M.

    1511 posts

    Sounds like you’re a well-reasoned person to me - you do make a number of good points. Glad you looked into everything and found the best tool for the job.

  • #8 / May 16, 2008 12:00pm

    rokker

    179 posts

    Thanks for the feedback. I decided to put EE on the back burner for the time being until v2 comes out so I’m using Wordpress for now.

    Personally the reason for this is I didn’t find EE as inviting to get up and running as some other CMS software. For example I tried EE out but didnt see how to create a static page. After poking around I find I need to enable a plugin which is disabled by default - I would of thought a site without static pages would be an exception rather than the norm. And even then it wasnt obvious. The other three CMS packages I tried out I felt were clearer in this regard. Then I looked into friendly URLs and I couldnt see an option for that so I’m faced with a long article on the expressionengine site about configuring the .htaccess file. Now at this point it left a sour taste already because I didn’t see why such basic things applicable to most sites felt like mini hurdles which already consumed time.

    Oh, and another thing is I’d of prefered a builtin rich-text editor like the other CMS software do by default. I know one can probably be added, and this is more of a conscious philosophical decision (judging by an interview at SSW) but it’s yet more time getting passed the “basics”.

    I’m sure it’s all simple to EE regulars now and I’m sure they’ll pounce on me saying how stupid I am, but the user friendlyness I felt lacking for first time use/setup. Comparing to Wordpress, creating content for both blog and static pages is immediately obvious, and the user friendly urls is a radio-button away and clear/fully configurable - Wordpress was the only CMS of the four I felt nailed this. Drupal was especially poor too which needed a supplied plugin to enable this for manual-friendly urls, and a third party plugin for auto-friendly urls, so I’m not just picking on EE here. And by friendly, I mean to humans, not just Google.

    At this point I was thinking 1) why has every basic thing so far felt like a hurdle, 2) EE2 is right around the corner anyway and 3) I already have a Wordpress theme I’m happy with. So rather than spend the time reading the tutorials and convert the theme from WP into EE I decided to hold off for a few months until EE2 comes out. It’s not time I can really spare right now and WP is doing the job just fine.

    From the articles I’ve read about EE I do feel its the best choice overall so I’ll definately be revisiting it. But several articles/posts on the net also mentioned about EE’s friendly urls not been as good as it could be.

    With Wordpress by the way, I feel it’s lacking regarding markup tags for static pages and missing what I would consider some essential functionality here. At that point I contemplated giving EE another try because I felt confident EE would probably fair better here, but in the end I just did a clunky workaround to show pages/sub-pages as I wanted them.

    I feel EE could learn from Wordpress’s out-of-the-box experience even though WP is the less powerful of the four CMS packages I tried out. I guess I’m just underwhelmed by the current state of all CMS software right now - I don’t feel any get all the basics right yet. I coded my own CMS with admin backend a few years ago for a different site (mainly because I wanted full control over the tree of info and image manipulation for fancy page headings and photo thumbnails) but definately appreciate how EE would probably make things easier if I were to do that site today. But for the site I’m doing now, WP is just as capable for the time being.

    Looking forward to EE2. Next time I’ll be more patient 😉

    for sure you have not taken the Boyink Tutorial.

    that turorial alone is enough to give anyone with basic HTML experience the boost to get going, it is the not-so-secret key, as well as his EE training software at www.train-ee.com, the data architecture screencast is well worth purchasing for a newer user, the Boyink Tutorial, however, is FREE.

    and any of the work i’m doing now in v1.6x won’t be wasted as my templates and data structures will remain.

    and i, for one, am bummed that they will be getting rid of the term “weblog”, it made perfect sense to me.

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