Thread

I have spent the better part of a week researching and working with EE and I have more questions/comments for the team.

Before I start let me state the following:

>Read through most of the documentation
>Installed EE (core) on test site.

1.) First I would like to say that the install process was well thought out it. Over all it went very smooth and I had no issues. I especially like the script you have to test your webserver before installing.

2.) Is this product geared towards developers because that is the feeling I am getting? This seems to have a very large learning curve and so it is not something I can probably use for smaller clients. Although I understand the principles behind the architecture of the system increases the over all flexibility it seems so at the cost of being user friendly.

3.) Why when a user wishes to insert an image into a content page do they have to know the URL of the image. I have seen this done on forums before but in a client setting why doesn’t the software simply bring up a list of available images (with thumbnails) in a specified image folder. This in all honestly kills the deal for me. Basically a client using EE is going to have to type their URL and then find the image they wish to use amongst possibly hundreds or thousands of image depending on the site. I think this feature needs to be re-thought. A few suggestions would be a simple pop up listing all images in a directory with a search feature. Clicking on a particular image listing would show a preview or insert the image.

3.) I have found your use of terminology somewhat confusing. How do I explain the differences to a client between what is a “weblog” and a category and for that matter why they should use one over the other? Although I understand them in theory I cringe at the thought of trying to explain this to end users. Another example is the use of the term “Guided” and “Normal” in the “formatting” section of a forum post? In my opinion the terminology is confusing.

4.) Lack of import support. Most of the top web software companies offer import utilities for their clients. Wordpress 2.0, Vbulletin, and Constant Contact all have excellent import untilities to name a few.

5.) Support has been pretty good here in the forums and any emails that have been sent so nice job there.

6.) I would really like to see a better working demo and quite frankly one that I don’t have to shell out 10 bucks for.  Apparently I am required to register for the 30 day trial in order to see all of the features such as the photo gallery. Can you at the least provide some screen shots of the photo gallery so I can show it to clients without having to register for a 30 day trial? 

Those are some of my first impressions after spending a week working with EE and I thought you might be interested in hearing from a new user. My intent was not to offend anyone it was simply to provide the team with some (hopefully constructive) feedback on your product.

Thanks for you time.

Feedback is always a good thing- so no offence taken.  Especially because it was good feedback!

As to the intended audience, I’d agree.  EE has really developed a strong base among developers- mostly because it’s a great tool for them to use.  Once the first site is done and they have a feel for what it can do, each site after that goes faster and easier.  But I don’t think it’s because EE is targetted towards developers per se- it’s just a great tool for them to use.  Both Lisa and I started out as ‘power users’, not developers.  I use EE for my fanfic site, Lisa for her personal blog.  It’s great for anyone who wants power and flexibility. 

That said, let me hit a few specifics in the above.

3.  Have you checked out the file upload/browser in the publish page?  It mostly does what you want- allows users to upload to or browse in folders, select a file/image- view a thumb- choose a field to insert it in, and with a ‘click’ it’s there.  It doesn’t have the search feature you’re talking about, but otherwise it’s very easy for end users.  (Will even resize/create thumbs/insert them as pop-ups to the larger image.) 

3 again.  All of the EE terminology can be changed.  To swap out the ‘weblog’ term (which can be really confusing if your site isn’t a blog) you can specify a different term in ‘Admin- System Prefs- General Config’ under ‘Section Designation Word’- I usually use ‘section’.  And with clients/date entry people?  I tend not to explain so much as instruct.  And I limit their access in the control panel- generally to the publish/edit pages.  If they need to go to the gallery, I’ll add an extra tab that goes straight there.  It depends on how you run your clients- but I go with simplifying everything as much as possible.  Of course- if you turn the whole site over to them once it’s up and running, you’ll need to lay out things a lot more.  But hopefully their role at that point will be largely limited to content entry.  That can be made very easy with EE.

4.  It depends on what you need to import- but EE imports MT format natively- see Admin- Utilities- Import- that covers most basis.  There’s also a third party plugin that will import CSV and rss.

5.  😉

6.  On the Try it page, there’s a control panel demo.  Folks can log in and get a feel for the control panel- including the gallery.  That might fit the bill. 

Hope that helps a bit- and thanks for the detailed feedback.

(Will even resize/create thumbs/insert them as pop-ups to the larger image.)

Really?

How do you activate the thumb creation from that then?

It’s standard- go to ‘publish’ and click ‘Upload File’ under the ‘submit’ links.  You’ll get a popup window with a file browser in it.  Upload an image.  You’ll get a new screen with an option to ‘You may optionally resize your image or create an image thumbnail.’- click the button, set your width/height and whether to create a separate image or replace the existing.  If you create a new image you’ll get some options:

File Type
  Embedded in Entry
  URL Only
  Pop-up Image Link
  Pop-up Thumbnail Link

Choose what you want going in your entry- then you pick the field you want the code plopped into.  If you choose ‘Pop-up thumbnail’ you’ll end up with some javascript and a thumb- the js will cause the thumb to open to the large image in a pop-up.

It’s handy.  You just need one of the image libraries- GD, GD2, Imagemagic, NetPM enabled for image resizing and the backend set up.  But once it’s set up, it’s pretty easy for the end user.  Not an ajaxy/WYSIWYG thing, but I’ve never had anyone have trouble with it once they walked through it.

Thanks! I didn’t realise this.

Mmm I keep getting ‘A problem was encountered while attempting to upload your file’.

You have to give the right permission to your upload folder.

To come back with the popup image, I’m still looking for an easy way to edit the popup window. I want to put more information than just a bigger version of the image ; like caption, and a close window link (there still a lot of person who have problems with popup windows)...

This might be a bit over the top for you lttc, but I use ibrowser for upload and file management. It plugs in to TinyMCE which is a WYSIWYG editor. Ibrowser does every kind of file manipulation you’d ever want from a image upload standpoint.

http://expressionengine.com/wiki/TinyMCE_&_ExpressionEngine_Integrated_File_Upload_Management/

gah.. great. I can’t link to the wiki page directly????

go to the wiki and search ‘ibrowser’

All working now. I thought I’d changed the folders to CHMOD 777 but obviously not *slaps head*

Changed the title to remove the ampersand.

http://expressionengine.com/wiki/TinyMCE_and_ExpressionEngine_Integrated_File_Upload_Management/

yeah I figured that’s what happened but I was in a hurry so I dind’t look too far.

Thanks Sue! you sure do a great job around here.

2.) Is this product geared towards developers because that is the feeling I am getting? This seems to have a very large learning curve and so it is not something I can probably use for smaller clients. Although I understand the principles behind the architecture of the system increases the over all flexibility it seems so at the cost of being user friendly.

I have to say, while I do think that developers are an intended audience, as a developer I use EE on small, large, and expansive clients. The client isn’t suppose to be the developer, so they DON’T have to know why you would choose a weblog over a category over a custom field. All they need to know is, there are one, five, or twenty-five publish forms for them to select from that correspond to these site sections.

All of my clients, except one who was heavily into the pages paradigm, adapted rapidly, within a hour to a couple days. The one who was so encrusted in creating physical files and physical directories took a month, before things really clicked for him. But that wasn’t really surprising, we also provide technical support for his organization, and it took him almost a year to adapt to moving from Microsoft Word 5.1 to Microsoft Word 2001, even after we made almost all the menus and what not the same.

Just yesterday, I was doing a client walk through of a site, and I have to say, sometimes developers, programmers, technicians, whomever do a disservice to clients. We have them focus so much on the details that they can’t see the larger picture. The client was providing all these details about navigation, page layout etc, then I asked her, what type of content or did she have an example of content for four out of five of the sections we discussed, and she had no idea. No idea. She didn’t know yet. WTF. Months of pre-planning on their part, and they didn’t know what the content was going to.

From my perspective, for a client, the larger picture is more important. You higher a consultant or a specialized staff person for the details. But when I client can spend an hour or two telling me where they want this page or that, but can’t tell me who their target audience is, and what content they’re hoping to deliver to them, then they’ve been bedazzled.

Bedazzled, hoodwinked, and unfortunately refocused.

Which is why I think EE targets developers. Does a client really need to know the difference between a weblog vs a category, in terms of site architecture? They shouldn’t. In final instructions, I typically break it things down to where do you want the data to display. If you’re posting an article for ‘here’  then use this form. Even for whomever will act as a Super Admin from the client’s staff, they have two accounts to serve their two hats. Most of the time, they’re just going to be a regular publisher, editor, writer, whatever. So their primary account ONLY logs them in with those privileges. They see Publish, Edit, and occasionally Communicate tabs. If they need to administrate, then they step away from their job as a publisher or editor and log-in separately to do so.

It makes constructs very easy, and insures that training mostly consists on organizationally designed constrains like status or selecting categories; if multiple forms publish to the same area, reviewing forms relationship to front end section; going over dates and revisions, and then making sure they can use the Edit form to narrow down content. My job is to make their job easy and EE allows that, while still making my job far easier and faster. So I see it as a developers tool.

[edited]

Thanks “JT Thompson” for the information.

I have installed “tinymce”, enabled it and at publish, nothing new happen.

Since, I don’t know nothing about programming, and that EE is enough hard learning for myself, I am just looking for a really easy way to manage the “upload popup” feature.

The easier thing for me would be to be able to put my javascript calling code to a popup template in the EE upload script. Is it possible?

Than, in which file, where and how do I put the code?

Thanks!

Thanks “JT Thompson” for the information.

I have installed “tinymce”, enabled it and at publish, nothing new happen.

Since, I don’t know nothing about programming, and that EE is enough hard learning for myself, I am just looking for a really easy way to manage the “upload popup” feature.

The easier thing for me would be to be able to put my javascript calling code to a popup template in the EE upload script. Is it possible?

Than, in which file, where and how do I put the code?

Thanks!

Hi, lttc - since this is technical support question, please post in the appropriate forum, at first glance - the how-to forum.  This is for pre-sales specifically.

Thank you!

Sorry ! I will.