Thread

Well it’s the third time in the last 12 months I lost a large project to Wordpress or Joomla. The latest was even already on EE and decided to switch.

Every response was the same, they didn’t like EE’s backend.

Time to re-tool I guess

Did they say what it was they didn’t like about the back-end specifically?

Which version of EE?
Is the Structure module involved?

I ask about Structure, because I recently worked on a site where category pages were structure pages that needed to be assigned to a category and all list entries on the category page needed be assigned to the category as well. Completely confusing even for me, not sure how the client manages.

I think sometimes it comes down to what tools are at use, and whether everything in the CP serves a purpose for the clients needs. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve worked on an EE site where channel preferences aren’t configured, publish layouts are untouched, and the client has access to all CP tabs.

Then again, it may be just the decision of someone high up in the company that hears a lot about Wordpress, and didn’t spend much time in the EE CP.

Why would you lose the project? Why not just do it in Wordpress if that’s what they really want?

If the project is doable in Wordpress, then it’s not a bad option. However, most of the sites that I do would be a serious pain in Wordpress.

Personally, I feel the Wordpress back-end is ugly and feels off for anything but blogging.

Why would you lose the project? Why not just do it in Wordpress if that’s what they really want?

Okay.

Personally, I feel the Wordpress back-end is ugly and feels off for anything but blogging.

The reason why the OP started this topic, as there is a little bit of confusion and shock value.

The same thing happened to me recently. I lost a fairly large project because in my bid I promoted EE as the CMS.

Here’s what they said:

“Thank you so much for your bid. Your recommendations were also great. However, in the end the trustees wanted to go with a firm that uses Wordpress -  a solution that everyone was familiar with.”

My first reaction? “I guess I’ll just have to learn Wordpress”. I even downloaded it.

But after thinking about it, I now feel differently.

Do I tell my potential accountant that he won’t get my business unless he uses a particular software package to do my tax return?

Do I tell my builder he can’t work for me unless he uses Craftsman tools?

Do I tell my photographer I won’t hire her unless she uses a Nikon camera?

Do any of the ‘trustees’ mentioned above even know how to make a website? Probably not, which is why they were looking to hire a professional. Why should I let them dictate what kind of tools I use to do the job?

I have come to the conclusion that clients say they want Wordpress because it’s something they’ve heard about. They heard that it’s “good”. It’s what a lot of people they know use, so they want it, too.

I am no longer specifically promoting EE in my proposals. I’m promoting MY skills and expertise as a designer/developer.

In other words, the TOOL doesn’t make the site. The professional does. When they ask about what specific CMS I use, I’m now explaining that EE is more of a tool for professionals, which is why they might not have heard of it. That it’s very robust and secure, and that it will enable me give them everything they want. I say I love it, and my clients do, too. It’s the end result that counts. The tool just helps facilitate the desired result.

I’ve been in the web business since 1995. I’ve been very careful about the tools I’ve chosen. I use very few and learn the crap out of them. I’ve been using EE since 2005. I have a lot of time invested in it. I have no desire to spend ungodly amounts of unbillable time to learn WP, or Drupal, or Joomla when EE does just about everything I need it to.

I have gotten several projects from disgruntled Joomla and WP clients, so I guess there’s always a flip side!

So, I’m stickin’ with EE. I’m just selling it a little differently.

Good for you Debra!

If they aren’t going to take your recommendations at this point in the game they won’t later on either - and you’ll end up building a site that you won’t want anyone to see…;)

So, I’m stickin’ with EE. I’m just selling it a little differently.

Great post! Couldn’t agree more! 😊

This CMS is the commercial offering brought to you by EllisLab, the same guys who created the PHP development framework named CodeIgniter. ExpressionEngine is a flexible system that allows you to publish any number of different streams of information with custom fields. It comes in three versions: “freelancer” version, non-commercial, and commercial.

Never seen a third party spam a company’s forum with old company market-speak like this.

Wow… it’s a wild frontier out here on the lounge…

The truth is obvious:

Ellislab pays spammers to promote their products, and one of these spammers picked the wrong site to spam…

😊 😊 😊

Drat we’ve been found out! 😛

// baleeted

Really liking what Debra said.

To further Debra’s reply, she’s bang on with her message. For a lot of us, we’re not selling a CMS, we’re selling a service; a solution; the complete deal. When I write solution proposals, I’m not trying to force a particular CMS onto a client but an entire solution onto them.

If a client walks away from the proposal, fine - we sit down and investigate why we weren’t the best choice and we address that. However by selling a solution, the client invests in us for the long term to accomplish their goals. I think if a customer then walks away after a project has started or has been implemented you need to seriously look at your business and ask yourself: Are we doing a good enough job? and why are customers walking away from our solutions?

I think you’ll find the answer is almost never going to be “Because EE’s backend sucks”. If that is indeed part of the reason why you might lose a customer, then part of the solution is to implement your own backend which we’ve done for 1 particular big ticket customer that wanted a control panel to suit their workflow.

And we’re seeing the same thing as Debra, particularly with Joomla. A lot of our clients come from disgruntled Joomla and Wordpress solutions especially from hospitality clients like restaurants, hotels, etc, whom have been trying to mangle booking solutions using Wordpress.

We’re also finding that the type of clients that we sell a complete solution around EE too, are our bigger and ‘better’ clients. For a lot of our customers when we sell them a solution based on EE, our proposals are written around the idea that “this is just the beginning…” and we’ve gone on to then develop bigger things such as iPhone, Facebook apps, and whole entire web-applications that entail months and months of work, and a price tag to boot!

A fantastic book that everyone selling a service should read is Selling the Invisible by Herry Beckwith: http://www.amazon.com/Selling-Invisible-Field-Modern-Marketing/dp/0446672319 - Honestly, I’ve never paid one iota to marketing, and most marketing material I’ve read is rubbish, but this is a *must* have book.

I have a similar situation at the moment with a potential project with a client. His concern is that there are not enough ’ local ’ web developers using ExpressionEngine and feels that Wordpress will potentially be a ’ safer ’ solution to go with in terms of support if he needed to use additional developers etc.

You can talk until you are blue in the face about how good ExpressionEngine is, but you really have to push it home that ExpressionEngine is a more advanced framework than say Wordpress for developing more advanced functionality on a site, so its more ’ future proof ’ for a long-term site development strategy etc.