I’m working with Core, making sure I can get my site built before going for the Commercial/MSM license. I have just one last question about url structure. I’ve read the docs on it and the “Importance of Semantics” series and come to some conclusions, but I need to just check to make sure I haven’t missed some big crucial element before going forward.
In my existing site, my site URL’s are determined by categories—I have been accustomed to the idea that this is helpful because it adds meaning to the URL. For example, .../decorating/bedrooms/how-to-select-bedding/ or .../decorating/bathrooms/flooring-options/
So what I understand is that in EE, I *could* have this same structure, but I would have to have a template group called decorating, with a template called bedrooms, and another template called bathrooms (and one called kitchens, etc.). Then if I had .../gardening/ that would be another template group. Which would be lots of duplication, since they are all just simple pages that all use the same format and same template.
Am I right about this (so far)?
So, to use more of a “natural” EE structure, the best I have so far is that I would have something like /article/entry-name/ for the entries, and providing navigation to the various sections could be accomplished with categories (.../category/decorating/bedrooms/) but that the actual entries would be at /article/entry-name/ (or /docs/entry-name/ or /how-to/entry-name/ or whatever I choose as my main template group).
Am I understanding this correctly? Am I missing some clever solution completely?
Thanks again for taking the time to read all this blather and help me get over my old, crotchety ways…
Angela - as I mentioned in your previous request; URLs are really, really intrinsic to ExpressionEngine’s operation. You’re considering trying to change this before, in my opinion, you’re really familiar with that operation. Changing the URL scheme complicates things and while it is possible, even out of the box, is something that I would not recommend doing until you have worked with ExpressionEngine at a pretty advanced level.
You have understood the natural structure, yes.
Honestly, without the category you’ll have much shorter URLs that are still informative - the URL will say “this is an article with this URL title”, rather than “this is an article in this group with this URL title”. You might have entries in several different categories as well, and you can’t reflect all of that in the URL.
Thanks Lisa—I actually am past trying to change things, specifically, I’m just trying to translate my old brain into a new, sleek EE brain. Heh. Unfortunately I’ve been building sites since 1993 and sometimes I have a hard time thinking of things in a new way.
I probably didn’t convey this well in my post, but I was saying it seemed like I *could* replicate a category based structure (using many template groups/templates), but that it didn’t seem like a very good idea or a very elegant solution. But it was a good way to make sure I understood how it all works. Ultimately, I think a natural solution that is similar to the EE knowledgebase section (all entries at the default site and categories for navigation), is a great idea, because you’ll never break incoming links to single entries if you change your categorization scheme. It’s a great idea, and one that I had often wished that MT would do.
I’m trying, and like I said, I definitely appreciate your taking the time, I hope I’m not trying your patience already! I’m really sold on EE, based on my experience with Core, but I wanted to just explore these last areas and make sure I understood how it worked before I made the commitment to moving my existing site.
I only have one last question (I promise): In addition to my primary commercial site, I have several sites that are currently just personal sites (blogs). If I implement those in individual Core licenses, and then later want to monetize them, is it relatively easy to convert them to a site in the Commercial license managed by MSM?
Thanks again!!!!!! You all have been impressively responsive and patient. I appreciate it.
Yes, you are correct - you could replicate the category thing; but it is not a good idea. =)
The EE KB uses a standard weblog and categories; totally out of the box.
Ok, first, all MSM sites must be owned by the same person; now it is very possible to upgrade from EECore to the full version; however - there is no way to merge two full installations into MSM Sites. You would need to export entries and re-import them, and manually move over your templates.
Conversely, there is no way to split Sites out of the MSM.
The decision to be MSM or not needs to be made now; you can always add the MSM to a site, of course, but if you are doing several separate sites, you’re best to go into this knowing how you want it structured.
A ha—I’m glad I asked. In the future, I will absolutely wanting to monetize all of my sites. So doing an MSM-type structure will make the most sense. But I also don’t want to invest the $$ to bring all of the sites into MSM right now (I have well over a dozen). So maybe they just stay where they are until I’m ready to monetize, then I’ll bring them in when I’m ready.
I noticed on the hosting site (sorry, can’t remember the name right now), that it’s 20% off of EE when you host there—is that a onetime thing, or does it apply to future purchases also (assuming that offer is still happening at the time)?
I guess I lied about having only one more question…sorry!
EngineHosting - and that’s a one time thing. =) However, ExpressionEngine does offer a Volume Discount Program (and no, you can’t double-dip *grins*).
Each software purchase you make on the same expressionengine.com account is logged so that as you meet milestones as indicated below you will automatically receive the discount. The discount plan is cumulative, allowing you to purchase what you need today and still receive a discount when you meet any of the milestones at a later date. Please note that the volume discount plan only applies to ExpressionEngine and ExpressionEngine module purchases. It does not apply to 30-day demo sign-ups.
Volume Discount Milestones:
3+ purchases, 10% off
6+ purchases, 15% off
10+ purchases, 20% off
15+ purchases, 25% off
20+ purchases, 30% off
30+ purchases, 40% off
40+ purchases, 50% off
On hosting (and this may be a question for a different place?)—I’m actually very happy with my current hosting company, but I’m not sure the way they structure their accounts would be compatible with MSM? I have a reseller account, where I have access to WHM, and then each domain is set up with it’s own account—own cpanel, own directory structure, etc..
I *can* add domains to a primary account—what it does is create a directory in the primary site structure and then tie a subdomain to it and then park the domain on that. So the actual site files are located in an html-accessible subdirectory. For example: primarysite.com/newsite/—which is also accessible at newsite.primarysite.com and www.newsite.com—does this make sense? And will this work with MSM?
Back to the EE KB…I notice that it doesn’t have “index.php”—how is that done? I assume it has to be the .htaccess method? It can’t be that the index.php was changed to knowledge_base because then it would have to be that for the other sections, too, and it’s not…?
And finally (really, I think this is finally, now), looks like I am going to be moving both my hosting situation (either to your hosting or to a new location on my existing server) and moving to EE—which is better? Move first or switch to EE first? Or do you recommend one or the other? My inclination is to switch to EE first, then move (so i don’t have to install the old software again).
I *can* add domains to a primary account—what it does is create a directory in the primary site structure and then tie a subdomain to it and then park the domain on that. So the actual site files are located in an html-accessible subdirectory. For example: primarysite.com/newsite/—which is also accessible at newsite.primarysite.com and www.newsite.com—does this make sense? And will this work with MSM?
Quite a standard setup, and yes, that’ll work fine with the MSM.
I notice that it doesn’t have “index.php”—how is that done? I assume it has to be the .htaccess method? It can’t be that the index.php was changed to knowledge_base because then it would have to be that for the other sections, too, and it’s not…?
Yes, we actually do remove index.php with .htaccess.
I am wondering if there’s any good guidelines on how many sites is a “good idea” for MSM? For example, say you had 10 sites, all on MSM, and then one of them experienced a huge spike in traffic—it would theoretically impact the performance of all 10 sites, yes? Or if, for some reason, EE stopped working, then all 10 sites would stop working, yes? Is there any technical guideline for when it’s better to split it out into it’s own installation of EE (based on number of sites, bandwidth, load, anything at all, even just opinion)? Or is it not really a big deal?
I am wondering if there’s any good guidelines on how many sites is a “good idea” for MSM?
There is no hard number. Bear in mind that you need additional licenses once you use up the three that come with the MSM, and that all sites must belong to the same person or entity. A handful of related sites is fine, hosting dozens of client sites is not.
For example, say you had 10 sites, all on MSM, and then one of them experienced a huge spike in traffic—it would theoretically impact the performance of all 10 sites, yes?
Yes, but that’d be true for separate installs on the same server as well, or, really, for any site on a shared server.
Or if, for some reason, EE stopped working, then all 10 sites would stop working, yes?
Again, that’s unlikely, but there are single points of failure, yes. If your server goes down, or your database beomces unreachable, your sites won’t be available.
Is there any technical guideline for when it’s better to split it out into it’s own installation of EE (based on number of sites, bandwidth, load, anything at all, even just opinion)?
No guidelines, no. I wouldn’t think it much of an issue, either, unless you require fully separated sites, each on their own server (and even then you probably have better options, like a load-balanced server with failover, or something like that.)
Okay, thanks, that helped quite a bit. I tend to be a belt-and-suspenders kind of person, so my inclination is to have multiple redundancies, but I have been told in the past that I can overdo it. Like I’d be tempted to split the sites between two EE installations just to prevent the DB from pulling all of the sites down at once.
Earlier this year, my site went down for a few hours because the DB had reached it’s space allotment and I didn’t get the notification, so it automatically shut itself down until I found it and gave it more space. Will that ever happen to me again? Unlikely, but who knows?
And to be clear, all the sites are owned and operated by me—I’m an online publisher and I publish content in several categories (i.e. home & garden, parenting, filmmaking, sculpting, etc. etc.), but they’re all owned and operated by me (well, technically my company, but I’m the President and my husband is the VP).
Thanks!! Unless you’ve got more wisdom for me on this issue, I think I’m actually done. Really. I mean it this time.
