Hi

This one has got me puzzled for a looong time. I frequently have comments with my email address instead of the user’s… and I have just found out why.

According to the documentation, in an {exp:comment:form} variable, {email} holds the email address submitted by the user but it does not if {exp:comment:form} is nested within an {exp:weblog:entries}, i.e.:

does not work as advertised. I have re-read the doc just to be sure and I don’t see any restriction on where to place the {exp:comment:form} variable so I think this qualifies as a bug.

BTW why do I need the nesting? Because I want to use the entry title as the page title so I have to place the {exp:weblog:entries} very early in the page.

Workaround: use two {exp:weblog:entries} variables but it causes two database access (less efficient):

Benoît Marchal - 15 July 2008 12:53 AM

I have re-read the doc just to be sure and I don’t see any restriction on where to place the {exp:comment:form} variable so I think this qualifies as a bug.

I don’t think so. Incidentally, it does say in the user guid:

Please note that the comment entries tag should not typically be nested inside of a standard {exp:weblog:entries} tag.

Ingmar Greil - 15 July 2008 01:32 AM

Please note that the comment entries tag should not typically be nested inside of a standard {exp:weblog:entries} tag.

It’s not the comment entry tag I’m having difficulties with, it’s the comment submission form tag.

Well, that’s the same thing, really. You should not nest them, and will not find an example in either the docs or the template library that does it.

Ingmar Greil - 15 July 2008 02:01 AM

Well, that’s the same thing, really. You should not nest them, and will not find an example in either the docs or the template library that does it.

I realize there are more important things in life than this sort of discussion and I apologize that I’m sending this message to you Ingmar because you’ve always been a very helpful person but I really have a problem with how the support is being organized here. EE is a great product, I don’t understand its support.

The purpose of this message is not to start a flame war but to express a genuine problem: either there is something I don’t understand or there is an… let’s say inconsistency in how support is being handled that I find infuriating.

Case in point: a couple of weeks ago, I reported exactly the same problem : a tag would not nest properly. I thought I had learned past lessons so I reported it as a feature request. Please note that you will not find an example of that problematic nesting nowhere in the docs or in the template library either. The doc was as silent on that nesting as it is on the current nesting so it’s exactly the same situation, at least from a customer standpoint.

And, of course, the answer was that it’s not a feature request, it’s a bug. And the answer comes with a little lecture on how I need to choose the tags according to my needs… like I didn’t knew.

So this time, facing exactly the same problem, I go straight for the “proper” procedure, the procedure I was explained last time and file a bug report. And this time, of course, for whatever reason it’s something different again.

Again the purpose of this message is not to start a flame war but to express a problem I have with this working method. And I want to stress that I accept the problem may be in my understanding on how the support works (if that’s the case, then please explain) but I find it extremelly difficult to work with an environment where the same problem is being treated differently on the whim of whoever replies and on being lectured each time that I’m not going through the proper procedure or the proper use of EE.

If this comes as being nervous or insulting, I apologize in advance. Not the goal but I really need at least a clarification and an explanation because I’m bored of wasting my time preparing posts, following the procedure I have been explained as best as I can and always being lectured that I filled this under the wrong heading or whatever. I need more consistency and predictability.

I don’t think your message is flaming and we all get frustrated when things aren’t working. But just to clarify that nesting comment tags in entries tags is documented.

http://expressionengine.com/docs/modules/comment/entries.html

Please note that the comment entries tag should not typically be nested inside of a standard {exp:weblog:entries} tag.

Benoît, here’s the simple explanation:

If {foo} is a variable of both tag A and tag B, tag A is going to be the one that parses it, because it is encountered first in the template.

There’s nothing unusual about having a weblog entries tag twice on the page to display entry titles in the <title> tag, I do it all the time, and we do it on this site.  Just be smart about it, use limit=“1” and the disable= parameter, and you’re fine.  If it really bothers you to have that tag twice, you can use Mr. Wilson’s Reeposition plugin to move the weblog entry tag’s output to another spot in your markup.  But I really wouldn’t sweat it, the second weblog entries tag to output content into the document header is absolutely normal.

Ryan Irelan - 15 July 2008 07:32 AM

I don’t think your message is flaming and we all get frustrated when things aren’t working. But just to clarify that nesting comment tags in entries tags is documented.

Thanks for the answer Ryan but I’d like to clarify one thing: I have no frustration with Expression Engine or things that are not working. As far as I can see, it works flawlessly… when I can get the information I need to make it work.

And that is the frustration: the documentation and the support are inconsistent and incomplete, in my view. Let’s the just take the example you point me to: the nesting warning is on the comment entries tag and I have had no difficulties at all working with that tag because I saw the warning and I made sure to comply with it.

But when I moved to the comment form, the documentation had no warning. I don’t know how you do it but I don’t have the whole of the documentation open in front of me (much less all of the examples as Ingmar was suggesting). I have the documentation for the bits I’m working on! And nowhere on the comment form page (that tag I’m working on) do you see a warning.

That’s the inconsistency and the incompleteness I have a problem with. Because it causes me to waste time.

Derek answer (thanks for the explanation BTW) points to a larger problem: if the behaviour is shared by all the tags than why isn’t that documented either? There are warnings here and there but there are inconsistent!

As for the incompleteness and the inconsistencies in the support, I think I have made them clear in my message above so I will not repeat myself. But the frustration clearly is not on the software not working but on the documentation and support. By a twist of irony, I think it would be less frustrating if the problem was with the software because I would just dump the whole thing. When software does not work, you drop it. When software works great but documentation and support don’t, you waste time.

On the formalities, you can close the bug report. Thanks for answering.

Thanks for the feedback Benoît.  I think our documentation and support are without par, but they aren’t infallible.  It’s not possible for us to anticipate every type of usage someone might try.  The warning is on the comment entries tag page because we found that it, unlike any other tag, was one that people commonly tried to nest.  As module tags are generally never designed to be nested, I agree, we should document that, and will do so in the future.  I take it personally however that you criticize the support that you have received.  In the short time that you have been with the community, nearly every person on staff has been eager to help you, has done so multiple times, and I personally even took time to write and freely distribute a forum/wiki extension based on a request you made.  I certainly walk away from this exchange with a new perspective, now knowing that you have viewed the personal attention we have given you as wasting your time.

English is not my native language so, after reading Derek answer, I want to apologise to the staff if what I wrote actually means that the time that was given to me was a waste of my time. It was not and it is not what I was trying to express. To the contrary, I am grateful to everyone (staff and not staff) for the time that has been spent in answering my questions.

Special apologies to Derek because he has been very helpful and although I have already thanked him for the wiki module, I want to re-iterate that. It is a great module and one that is very helpful. Everyone here is excited by that module.

Thank you for clarifying, Benoît.