You put rocks in your pillows, I know it! Next to Mac v. PC, validation topics are next on the list that tend toward flame wars. Its an important topic, something we need to review every now and then, but not the end of the world. nuff said.
EE is the only CMS I have truly understood despite needing to understand a whole lot more. There is a lot going on but only by the amount you want to dig into.
I’ve used Wordpress, Movable Type (back in the ver 2 and 3 days), and tried Drupal.
Wordpress is dead simple to install, and setup, and like others have said, your mother could use it, but it isn’t a great CMS… it’s a blogging engine. I am a fan of how it handles image uploads and inclusions into a blog post though.
Movable Type… ugh. I used it once before and it was painful. I just don’t like how it works, though the EE templates remind me a bit of MT.
Drupal… I tried it once before and got so frustrated with it. Most people’s comments so far in this thread are dead on. Sure its powerful and can probably do whatever you want it to do, but it comes with a price. That price is time… lots of time to learn it. I just browsed their forum and it’s littered of posts with 1 or no comments. Finding support on a topic is like finding a needle in a haystack. Drupal has been brought up for a couple of projects we have coming up at work, and while I’ll give it a look, I don’t think its what we want/need, and I might have to fight against using it because I know how much of a headache it’ll be.
I’ll use EE from now on for any project that requires a CMS if I can. EE is kind of like how CodeIgniter and jQuery were to me when I discovered them… they just instantly made sense and have made my life and job easier :)
I would like to apologize to everyone here (particularly PXlated and Les) for my tone the other day. Yes, I’m anal (about a lot of things), and I let my attitude get out there too far. However, I do have an excuse - last Sunday I quit all caffeine cold turkey, and since then I have been a little… how you say… cranky? Fortunately, I have since regained most of my senses and can now see that I was really uptight and out of line, and I’m truly sorry. Normally, I’m a really nice guy and get along with everyone, so this behavior was really out of character for me. So once again, I do (sincerely) apologise for any negative feelings that I may have caused. The community here seems very helpful and in any future posts, I do promise to be nice. (...crawls off into corner...)
OK so now I am offended… How dare you quit caffeine. That makes it sound like something that is bad for you. And how will all of the little starbucks barristas feel when you dont come around anymore. This is just downright ugly of you to do something like that. I say we take up a collection and whatever we raise we send RR in a lovely Sumatra.
couldnt resist. Ridgerunner welcome to the EE forums. We are a forgiving bunch. Glad to have you here. Hopefully you read the previous posts that basically state EE will not affect the output of code in regards to xHTML strictness. I think you will find it a pleasant CMS to work with. I am a Joomla! user (Marcus dons flame retardant suit) as well and EE is by far easier from a design perspective. I still think Joomla! is easier for non-techies to administrate and install plug-ins and such. But EE allows a flexibility that I have enjoyed quite a bit.
I would like to apologize to everyone here (particularly PXlated and Les) for my tone the other day. Yes, I’m anal (about a lot of things), and I let my attitude get out there too far. However, I do have an excuse - last Sunday I quit all caffeine cold turkey, and since then I have been a little… how you say… cranky? Fortunately, I have since regained most of my senses and can now see that I was really uptight and out of line, and I’m truly sorry. Normally, I’m a really nice guy and get along with everyone, so this behavior was really out of character for me. So once again, I do (sincerely) apologise for any negative feelings that I may have caused. The community here seems very helpful and in any future posts, I do promise to be nice. (...crawls off into corner...)
peace - rr
No worries RR, welcome back! You might uh, cough cough, try validating ExpressionEngine.com again. Its not perfect site wide yet but we spent this morning cleaning up a bunch of little bits.
Thanks for the kind words. After four days off the “black-crack”, my hands have pretty much stopped shaking and after a few really good nights sleep, I feel like myself again. But seriously, this whole web-dev thing is new to me. Although I have been programming for more than 30 years (can you say FORTRAN running under RT-11 on a PDP-11 with 32KB RAM and two 8 1/2” floppy system drives?) Anyhoo, after spending many years writing low level C and assembly language robotics, data acquisition and real-time systems software, I am trying to come up to speed on the three tiers of the modern web and have committed to learning the required new skills; XHTML, XML, CSS, ECMAscript, PHP, MySQL, Apache, Hijax, and now… most recently… the specific syntaxes of various Content Management Systems.
I do feel lucky that I have arrived a bit late on the scene and missed out on the whole browser-wars-table-based-slice-and-dice-shimmed-gif-gobblety-gook mess. The recent books I’ve been reading (Cedeholm, Keith, Budd, Flanagan, Friedl, Meyer, Robbins, Shea and (of course) Zeldman ) have all been touting the many benefits of web standards and I’ve taken it to heart (and thus developed my three-finger-salute reflex). But I’ve also recently found out that a CMS can do a bunch of the tedious, repetitive work for you (which, of course, you already know). Thus, I’m looking for a CMS that will encourage all the best practices; separating content, presentation and behavior. This is one of the reasons that I’m looking at Expression Engine, as it comes highly recommended by many of those in the know.
I’ll be checking back once I get my hands dirty with EE. See ya…
I’ll pause in here only to note that the Commercial support license is $40 bucks a year. FORTY DOLLARS A YEAR. Yep, for the price of dinner for two (Or four if doing Chinese take out!), I’ve gotten excellent support, at all hours of the day and night, over issues large and small. It’s insane, how do you guys stay profitable?
That fourty is to be able to get updates...I think you still get support here in the forums even if you haven’t updated. Doesn’t get much better than the EE forums.
I have read (almost) every word on this thread because I’m looking for a CMS - not because I want one but because I’m getting enquiries from potential clients who want to update their own sites.
Every posting on this thread (except where it drifted off topic) talks about the various CMS offerings from a user point of view but not one mentions the learning curve that the site owner will have to negotiate once the site is handed over.
The other thought that crosses my mind is that if I can use the same installation of EE to run several sites can I keep the various site owners out of the areas where other sites/files are stored?
Finance is not an issue but I am confused about multi-site costs and what prices are one-off nd what are annual.
I have read (almost) every word on this thread because I’m looking for a CMS - not because I want one but because I’m getting enquiries from potential clients who want to update their own sites.
Every posting on this thread (except where it drifted off topic) talks about the various CMS offerings from a user point of view but not one mentions the learning curve that the site owner will have to negotiate once the site is handed over.
This is not mentioned because it is more a matter of how the site is set up by the designer/developer. You can easily set up the workflow so that it is extremely easy to follow, and that will be a different workflow depending on each client and their level of expertise. For instance, if you are talking about someone that barely uses the web, then perhaps a stand alone entry form with just the title and body to fill out; but for someone a bit more advanced, you might let them use the Publish form; and there are many stages in between. It all depends on what is developed as the infrastructure of the site.
The other thought that crosses my mind is that if I can use the same installation of EE to run several sites can I keep the various site owners out of the areas where other sites/files are stored?
No, please review the license. One license entitles you to one installation of ExpressionEngine. In the case of handling multiple sites via the Multiple Site Manager, then they all must be owned by the same owner. You may not use ExpressionEngine to host other’s websites.
You can, however, purchase ExpressionEngine on behalf of your clients and set it up for them in their own installation. You should also head here and read up on the Volume Discount Program.
Decided to resurrect this topic. Being a designer myself that possesses little programming knowledge, I’ve been treading around with a couple Content Management Systems over the years. I’ve tried Wordpess, DotNetNuke, Joomla, and Drupal.
My take on them all is that they are great open-source software in all their own merits. DotNetNuke has a similar design seperated from content philosophy of ExpressionEngine, so it was originally my choice for development.. But performance is horrid! Furthermore, many of the third party modules are premature, buggy, and vary to much in design philosophy/usage to give the CMS an overall fluidity.
Drupal is by far the CMS I have studied. It’s great in their own rights, and I do love how it works and how the system is designed, but admit hate how to theme it. Because of Drupal alone, I’ve delved into 1,500 pages of PHP development books and 2 Drupal books. To this point, I am still somewhat confused and am incapable of really themeing to a great extent. I do have to say, it has amaazing potential and can almost single-handedly run any type of site imagineable.
ExpressionEngine, I’ve just began to delve into. I’ve been following the tutorials provided by BoyInk on his site and have to say I am impressed thus far with how it works. Although I do have to put out some complaints out there. The Standard-Alone Entry Form, while functional, isn’t intuitive in how its deployed. Hopefully 2.0 addresses this. Tag support is not in core. And finally, being the most important, is image manipulation/handling. It’s practically non-existent in EE, and as others have found, the current solutions that exist outside of Image Sizer is utterly tedious. The core needs to resolve image issues, and make the SAEF adaptive.. These are both fundamentals that belong in all content management systems, let alone commercial.
Keep in mind I am relatively new to EE, so my comments may not have much validity as I’m still going through the in’s and out’s.. But from the get go, the image issue really stood out though. I’ve purchased my Personal license. Once I get through the kink’s, and if things are still in my favor, will surely purchase the Commercial and get my things rolling.
