... We take no responsibility for the other plugins though…
I feel certain there was a disclaimer on the plugin sub-domain to that effect? It seems to have disappeared with the new-look site.
I’ve always thought this was implied if not explicitly stated.
Anyway, would it be too much of a big deal to insist that plugin submissions include a link to a simple working example, including the EE version that it is running on, whether that example is hosted by pMachine or otherwise. At least then we could see what version the plugin is compatible with. Or even a simple “tested with EE 1.x” statement should suffice.
The other thing I didn’t mention is that, if someone develops a plugin, module, extension, whatever, then its a pretty sure bet that that person is actually actively using it, so if you are have problems then a quick email might solve it pretty quickly.
Can I just say that one of the things I have always liked (sorry couldn’t resist) about EE is that you don’t really need a truckload of plugins to have it do what you wanted it to do.
Just my 2 c.
Seems a shame that plug-ins / modules etc get any critiscm at all. I thought this was just a simple way for EE hackers to make some of their own stuff available to others. I have only created one plug-in, and this was simply for my own needs, but then I thought it made sense to let others use it if they wanted.
I would suggest this though; re-label the field ‘Further Information” to ‘Further Information and latest version’ in the plug-in details page that will take the user to a URL where they might find a newer version of the plug-in / extension etc. The developer should then be encouraged to post information / bugs / thoughts on their own site.
I know this happens sometimes, but I am aware that the version held at pmachine is often behind the developer’s version because there is a time lag between submitting a new version to pmachine and it appearing on the site.
What I love about EE and Paul B’s work in particular, is that the way the code is constructed it makes it very managable to add changes through - modules, plug-ins and now Extensions (brilliant idea). If only I had more time, I have a few Extension ideas .... !
Running the install script on a new copy of EE just now, I see that the plugin list that used to appear to the right of the installed plugins is not showing up at all. Is this a result of this comment thread, or has something just gone haywire for me?
Although I have felt “burned” when a plugin stopped working with a newer version of EE, I always understood that this was something that you lived with when using third party plugins. These developers were not payrolled by PMachine so you couldn’t expect it to be updated right along side EE unless that person made it their business to update. maybe if I knew more about coding, it wouldn’t bother me so much because, then, I’ll just make my own plugins. However, because I’m relying on someone else that’s not a part of the PMachine team, oh well.
Bold, red fonts and bitching about how your demands are not being met. Is it any wonder the forums are no longer where I like spending my code breaks? They stopped being fun and enjoyable for me a while ago. Threads similar to this are why.
From a more distant perspective, I think that remark is a bit, err, “rough”?.
I’m sure you also spend some time on other forums and know what it can be like out there.
You make it sound like people are continuously at each other’s throats here.
That couldn’t be farther from the truth!!!
From a more distant perspective, I think that remark is a bit, err, “rough”?.
I’m sure you also spend some time on other forums and know what it can be like out there.
You make it sound like people are continuously at each other’s throats here.
That couldn’t be farther from the truth!!!
Ah, but these are our forums, not just in the Rick, Paul, Les way but in the pMachine Community way. There will be mistakes, disagreements, and problems but we expect a certain level of civility and understanding from everyone. Having someone disagree in such a harsh manner is not exactly the best way to make people understand the problem nor convince us that we should change how things are done. I was being honest. I expect as much from our users as I expect from myself, especially when I respect the user as much as I respect PXLated.
I can understand where both PX and Paul are coming from.
Without trying to get in the middle I believe, rightly or wrongly, PX was really just “venting” during one of those frustrating, hair pulling sessions we all go through ( well at least I do ) . . . and maybe it’s easier to relate to his position the more one uses EE in a “commercial sense” - just a thought?
At the same time I am, and continue to be blown away by the skill and support and quality of product and service I get from the pM staff. If it wasn’t for the people; Paul, Rick, Chris, Nevin, etc - and especially Lisa Jill, aka LJ, at the very begining who showed me the basics that gave me confidence in both the product and the community ( even though she told me no one cared about a poll module! ) I wouldn’t be where I am now with EE running my life….. errr, I mean my sites.
This doesn’t even mention all the support from the punters in the EE forum community - PX included - who have been more supportive and helpful than any other similar forum I’ve been on.
Now this is not meant to be just some warm-n-fuzzy, back-slappy, tear-jerky, feel-good post with everybody singing-after-me. It would be great to see more plugins / modules / extensions and to see them stay current with EE upgrades.
This thread and this thread show what can be done with some grassroots lobying, a little support from the community, some small donations, and the skill and generosity of a developer.
. . . and I hope I’m not doing the wrong thing by saying that, in a very small and humble commercial way, we’ve been working with another great EE developer to improve and expand a module for our purposes that, I’m assuming, will then be shared with the community - if it’s not already.
How do we all recognize the special balance of staff size, product cost, and personal service we get from pM in the EE product and still get all the “certified” and “stable” add-ons we want ( more, MORE, MORE!, now, NOW, NOW!)? As with most things two major ingredients surely are time and $$$.
Is there some way pM can facilitate something that could harness the collective efforts and small donations of the whole EE community?
I wish I had the solution. . . . maybe someone out there does?
I wish I had the solution. . . . maybe someone out there does?
Even though red, large fonts are a bit over the top, I understand the frustration:
As a webdeveloper you’re constantly evolving your website, which is different than the tasks from the pMachine Staff which is evolving a product. The only main concern from the pMachine Staff is delivering the best CMS out there and anything that’s added to the system is a nice gimmick for the stats. For us, webdevelopers, those gimmicks are being used on an everyday basis. So whenever there’s a new update we cross our fingers hoping, the site won’t crash.
To get to the point, can we work towards a solution that satisfies most of us? I was thinking about something in the lines of this:
1. Developing a plugin/module/extension must become a standard. Not only the code, but most of all the meta-data. For instance, when somebody adds a plugin ask them the following stuff: —Name: —Username: —Email: —Demo-url: —Compatible with version: —Do you provide assistence: yes/no: —Manual: —Any other stuff we can think of
2. Put those data in one table, and everytime there’s an update send the authors an email asking them to check on their plugin.
3. If they don’t respond within a certain timeframe remove them from the primary list and put them on a list “use at own risk” untill they do respond.
4. I had a 4th point, but it slipped my mind. grrr.
The positive thing is that everybody is free to support EE in any way, but there is a certain check. Probably there are some negative things to a system like this as well: it’s some extra effort for the pM-team, but I guess it somehow takes away the frustration from us developers.
I really hope it’s possible to cooperate in this issue and work towards a solution for everyone.
That’s not necessarily a feasible solution. Imagine someone hacking up a quick plugin to scratch a particular itch, and offering this plugin to the community at large, because he’s a nice guy. With the implied warning, obviously, that his plugin is free for the taking, but that there will be no support and no warranties.
I don’t see a person like that test his plugin with each and every new version, and providing updates. And, yes, your suggestion would substantially add to the burden of pmachine with, let’s be frank here, rather little in return. What you want basically exists already: Unless a plugin was written by a pMachine employee, I consider it “use at my own risk”.
Even though red, large fonts are a bit over the top, I understand the frustration:
As a webdeveloper you’re constantly evolving your website, which is different than the tasks from the pMachine Staff which is evolving a product. The only main concern from the pMachine Staff is delivering the best CMS out there and anything that’s added to the system is a nice gimmick for the stats. For us, webdevelopers, those gimmicks are being used on an everyday basis. So whenever there’s a new update we cross our fingers hoping, the site won’t crash.
Without trying to get in the middle I believe, rightly or wrongly, PX was really just “venting” during one of those frustrating, hair pulling sessions we all go through ( well at least I do )
I can imagine how PXLated was feeling when he submitted the thread; I can also simulate Paul’s normal reaction when reading PXLated’s post.
Conclusion: nothing! Unfortunately after 32 replies to this thread I have nothing worthy to add!
That’s not necessarily a feasible solution. Imagine someone hacking up a quick plugin to scratch a particular itch, and offering this plugin to the community at large, because he’s a nice guy. With the implied warning, obviously, that his plugin is free for the taking, but that there will be no support and no warranties.
I agree and understand what you’re saying, but I’m trying to find a solution where the EE-community gets more involved and feels more responsible for their “product” without scaring them off. Because if somebody wants to offer a plugin without any support or future updates, he/she is more than welcome. But his plugin will eventually move from the A-list to the B-list (or whatever lists we can think of).
But my feeling says that if you create your own plugin to scratch an annoying itch, you’ll update the plugin everytime you have to update your website as well. And if it doesn’t need any update, you don’t let the team from pM know. But if there’s a way to automate the whole process (which should be possible) it won’t cost the pM team AND the author much time. All the author has to do is click on a link in the email to update his plugin.
The only reason I can think of why this won’t work: an author confirms his plugin is up-to-date while it isn’t. Perhaps because he doesn’t have the time, perhaps he likes it when his plugin is in the A-list. It’s hard to check, but I assume the large community will respond to non-working plugins.
Wow! —————
Ok…haven’t visited any threads since I posted this. Am trying to work my way through 150 forum response notifications and this is the first. And, I don’t have the time to go through every one and “quote” things so this will be loosy goosy at best. —————
To Les…“Don’t have a certification process”...you need something. I appreciate the fact that others provide of their time at will (generous of them and I appreciate it) but you guys promote the fact that EE is extensible though plugins, modules, and now extensions. The big problem with other CMS/Blog systems is incompatibilities. I’m now seeing that with EE. Someone suggested an “A” and “B” list…good idea…or something similar. Supported or use at your own risk. ——-
To Paul…Total over reaction to my post. I didn’t make everything bold/red/caps.
See the “To Les” Response. There needs to be some distinction, supported/nonsupported. “Beastly Heart”, my, I’m not sure I even want to pursue that, what do you and Les have going? —————
LindaA…I think you hit it…Plugins are “officially” recommended many times. And, I’ve felt your pain with the Amazon plugins. Luckily, I haven’t really needed them. —————
To Paul again…Civility/Harsh…I was far more civil than I felt at the time. I didn’t really even unleash. Screw up the eCommerce module and you’ll see me go “uncorked” —————
Ronnie…I think something along those lines hits my main point. —————
And finally…Don’t take my criticism to strongly, I’m a big promoter/supporter of EE. I appreciate each and every person that contributes to the EE ecosystem and hope everyone continues. But, we do need to know if the contribution is something one is dedicated to and we can (to a certain extent) rely on or if it’s just scratching a momentary itch.
) I wouldn’t be where I am now with EE running my life….. errr, I mean my sites.
