This is not to spark controversy, I’d like to approach it as a developer and as a client.
I have been using EE for four years now, I like it very much, but lately I have been approached by a couple clients on my thoughts on MODx or if I knew anything about it.
I know that as a developer, I am comfortable building in EE, Wordpress, LightCMS, I know that the CMS we choose as developers is based upon the task and the goals we want to achieve.
I have read comparisons on MODx touting it as a great EE replacement, because it is Free! Open Source has its place, but when building for clients, I want to create something that they will have a great experience using and that will be solid. What I have not encounter is a great comparison on the two. You read here in the forums comparisons between Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress, but not much with MODx.
So, relax and share your developer and user experience with MODx, tell us why you like it and if you have been a convert from MODx to EE or viceversa.
I used to use the predecessor of MODx, Etomite, quite a bit.
It is one of the few other CMSs that has customizable fields from the control panel.
That said, I never really dug into development with it very much. And they have since rebuilt it from scratch.
It was a good tool, and very unique at the time it was started. It’s probably even better now, but I don’t think I’d ever trade in the EE maturity, community and support unless I really had to.
True..the best thing about EE is unmatched community support..there’s not even one instance where I posted a question in forums (EE or CI) and it wasn’t answered in a matter of minutes with a perfect solution..unlike joomla, wordpress or any other forums…
I’ve used MODx extensively for some extremely challenging websites. It is without question a superb CMS, at least equal to EE from a developer perspective.
However, it has nothing like the range of quality add-ons that exist for EE. It lacks good documentation, particularly advanced use examples. As a consequence, it doesn’t have anywhere near the same momentum in the developer community - yet.
However, it has nothing like the range of quality add-ons that exist for EE. It lacks good documentation, particularly advanced use examples. As a consequence, it doesn’t have anywhere near the same momentum in the developer community - yet.
And there it is, “yet”. I have read in some blogs about code igniter developers that have liked MODx, which it was surprising to me that they were using it instead of EE.
I read that you think it is a great framework for developers, but it lacks instructions or a good manual.
Do you think MODx is a good replacement for a free open-source CMS when a client is a non-profit and cannot even justify the low EE price?
Do you think MODx is a good replacement for a free open-source CMS when a client is a non-profit and cannot even justify the low EE price?
Perhaps. The price of EE + add-ons tends to be a small fraction of the job value so for me isn’t usually much of a consideration.
I would say you should simply choose the best tool for the job. MODx is great for sites that require a url hierarchy of arbitrary depth since it uses a document tree as it’s central organising principle. EE is a better choice when you need to cross reference content that appears in multiple categories, particularly if you have many thousands of entries.
Interestingly, the Structure module turns EE into an approximation of MODx as it allows templates to be assigned directly to pages within a tree; if you find yourself using Structure *exclusively* for organising content then you would almost certainly be better off using MODx, in my opinion. I’ve come to the conclusion that EE really shines when using uri routing as designed (template group > template > * ).
Interestingly, the Structure module turns EE into an approximation of MODx as it allows templates to be assigned directly to pages within a tree; if you find yourself using Structure *exclusively* for organising content then you would almost certainly be better off using MODx, in my opinion. I’ve come to the conclusion that EE really shines when using uri routing as designed (template group > template > * ).
Mark, with this post I can now see the difference for EE and MODx. Thank you very much for this brief explanation, because it goes to the real difference of both.
Like you mentioned before, I am very happy EE, and the offerings that it has on EE add-ons is fantastic. At the same time, as EE has grown with a large community, we start to see that it lacks some features that sometimes it seemed it should include. I think that a lack of a test environment and a many-to-many relationship system out-of-the-box is what would push EE from a great tool to a fantastic tool.
I have some deployments where considering the installation and EE license, I have almost double the cost on add-ons, thanks to those great people from Pixel & Tonic (Brandon Kelly and co.), Newism (Leevi Graham), Solspace (Mitchell Kimbrough and team) without them most EE sites would not be running smooothly
Hi, thought I’d just add my $0.02 worth… I’ve used MODx for 5 or so years - but not on a lot of projects since I’ve always used other CMS as well; ExpressionEngine (EE) for the last three years or so and for some fairly large and complex sites. I also used Etomite for a really short period and have to say that current versions of MODx have moved on a massive amount and are worlds apart from that system now.
MODx and EE share similarities in that both are extremely modular and flexible - and neither outputs anything to the front-end unless you specifically ask it to (which I find to be immensely useful compared to something like Drupal for example). Both have brilliant communities although MODx is still somewhat smaller than the EE one - especially if you take into account all the CodeIgniter folk. They’re both built on excellent PHP frameworks. On the other hand, overall I feel like they’re rather different beasts if you dig a little deeper; for me EE is more like Duplo and MODx like Meccano. With EE there’s rather more ready-built and polished third-party components and you can build large complex sites and apps using only the built in tagging language and with the sort of skills you’d need to make sites with HTML/CSS and a little JS (without needing to know PHP at all). Costs can mount up but my experience is that you can build things very quickly which offsets the costs (not to mention these include a chunk of support). With MODx you can build out certain types of site very quickly and do quite a bit with the built in parameters available on the extensive tag system but you’re much closer to the underlying PHP framework and the components somehow feel like they come in smaller pieces and need more assembly - but are nonetheless very ‘clever’ (for example the brilliant ‘Template Variable’ system - custom fields on steroids) and the overall approach offers extreme flexibility. But IMO MODx really flies if you have a good grasp of OO PHP. I’m not a programmer, so in the early days I gravitated towards CMS like Textpattern and then ExpressionEngine since you can tailor them and build complex sites without needing programming skills - but at the end of the day you’re learning a lot of proprietary ‘tag language’ whereas as time has moved on and I’ve picked up at least a little PHP then systems like MODx or SilverStripe look more attractive since I figure a deeper knowledge of PHP is more useful in the long run than intimate knowledge of a tagging system unique to a single CMS. But of course that’s a point of view entirely based on my own preferences although even with EE now directly built on CI I think it’s still a valid difference.
If you’re saddled with a legacy database structure then I’d say it’s easier to skin it with MODx than EE - although by default they both work using a pseudo db structure based around their different ‘page’/section models. I also think MODx is easier to set up as a custom ‘distribution’ and move between development and live server (the new MODx Revolution package manager has made great strides in that direction) although I’ve also experimented with things like eeSiteKit to close the gap.
Of course the underlying licence is also significantly different between the two systems and that alone might be a significant differentiator for some uses. EE places some restrictions on usage, so in some cases for that reason alone something else might be required.
As mentioned above, with MODx you get certain tools in the core that require commercial extensions in EE - but then there’s other things like basic verioning and simple workflow that currently need to be built for each project in MODx so in that respect it’s swings and roundabouts. Previously I used EE in a community training situation since you could give folk the free cut-down version at the end of the course to go away with and continue experimenting and learning whereas now we couldn’t afford to give them all a copy of the commercial version now the free core product is gone; but in general I’d say if you’re choosing purely on cost then in most cases you might be differentiating on the wrong criteria and there are other more relevant considerations to inform your decision. Not to mention that FOSS projects like MODx still need funds to develop and in recognition of the usefulness of the tools they produce I try to donate on a per-project basis when I use such tools to make sure the parent project/organisation remains healthy and grows. I have some questions where successful commercial organisations are making extensive use of FOSS tools to generate decent profits without contributing back to the parent project - so in that respect I’d not see such a gap in many cases on financial cost and you can still do a lot with the basic $149 EE install plus some non-commercial add-ons for cash-strapped non-profits.
Well, that’s my take on the comparison - hope that helps There’s an awful lot of CMS out there but a few like MODx have drifted towards the top of the pile for good reason. If you’re expecting simply a free version of EE then you could be in for a shock but that’s not to say you shouldn’t invest in exploring MODx and adding it to your toolkit…
I particularly feel the same way you do with Open Source projects. We can mention plenty, from Wordpress, MODx to Code Igniter, I think the corporate world, as well as Universities and other non-profits are over using the resources to their benefit and in many cases generating profits that never go back to support the people that in the end have fueled and continue to develop Open Source.
I’ve read through some documentation, and you’re correct about the difference between EE and MODx is how much you want to learn PHP and how much you want to learn EE’s proprietary tags. EE’s tag system is fantastic, and even though it took me a little bit to get a hold of it, I use it efficiently now. I am a UX and UI designer most of all, and it is a lot easier to deploy wireframes and prototypes in EE. MODx looks like a great EE replacement, but it is not for non-developers.
I agree with Mark and Jeremy that we have to study the situation, the project and assert the best tool for the solution. Sometimes it may be EE and some MODx.
I think it would be great if EE’s team implemented distribution within the system, out-of-the-box. EE’s community is great and I really like the contributions from many people in the community, whether they have created commercial or free add-ons.
I do agree with you that it would be beneficial for future EE devotees and users to have a free trial system.
Since most has been said already, I’ll keep my opinion short:
MODx is great for rather large-scale “classic structure” (page hierarchy) websites. However, pages will always be pages and some of the more dynamic stuff you can do with EE would mean shoehorning pages in MODx to do something they’re not meant to do. It works, but feels rather weird having a client enter page-specific stuff when it’s not being used (“yeah you should fill this field in for all page-types, except for this page-type, because we don’t use it there”). The entire manager can be customized, but that’s alot of work.
I have a garage-website running MODx Revo, and the depth of the site simply wouldn’t have been a good idea in EE (the hierarchy runs about 8-9 levels deep, with overviews at several levels etc.).
To me boils down to two things:
- What’s the skill-level of the client, and the ability for them to understand why you made certain choices (higher skill level, i’ll lean towards using MODx)
- Are pages the defining “form-factor” in the website or dynamic content / entries.
After spotting dceUser’s post a week or so back, I started looking at MODx again. Looked at it a couple of years ago and thought it looked interesting, but couldn’t quite get my brain around it.
Last weekend I spent a few hours reading the MODx docs and started to get a clearer picture of how it functions, but the posts in this thread really helped glue all the information together for me.
I think the most “telling” or informative thing I ran across in the MODx docs was this “how to” on creating a blog in Revolution. Really gave me the “feel” of what it might be like to develop in MODx.
Also, from a organizational/business sustainability look at the product, I found this post on the founder’s blog very interesting.
After all these years with EE though (It’s all we use at our shop), I’m not sure how well I would adjust to MODx, but you can bet I’ll be keeping an eye on it. Thanks for starting this thread, for all the great an informative comments.
I truly admire the members and the professionalism and courtesy expressed here.
I’m a member of many forums (as I suspect many of you are). And only at EE Forums and DonationCoder Forums have I witnessed such friendly true discussion about alternative products!
First of all I am complete noob to this. Thanks for everyones comments on this thread, specially the “EE is like duplo, and Modx like Meccano”.
I have some php experience with webassists powerstore. The poor web cart it is, but you learn.
I also have HTML5/css3 skills, and want to know which would be the best CMS to get my teeth into for some clients that want that bigger site to update regularly????
Looking at EE or Modx at the moment.
Any advice or tips, greatly appreciated. Thnaks in advance!!
First of all I am complete noob to this. Thanks for everyones comments on this thread, specially the “EE is like duplo, and Modx like Meccano”.
I have some php experience with webassists powerstore. The poor web cart it is, but you learn.
I also have HTML5/css3 skills, and want to know which would be the best CMS to get my teeth into for some clients that want that bigger site to update regularly????
Looking at EE or Modx at the moment.
Any advice or tips, greatly appreciated. Thnaks in advance!!
Hi Cosmik,
Both give you full control over the outputted code, and assume nothing as far as layout is concerned. You write the HTML, then implement it into your CMS.
Where EE really shines is dynamic content that isn’t necessarily page-bound. Where MODx shines is large-scale “classic hierarchical structure” sites, such as:
- Home
- About us
- Mission
- About the Founders
- George W. Bush
- Dick Cheney
- Memoirs
- Photo’s
- Vacation to Iraq
- Christmas
2009
2010
The depth of this hierarchy leads me to MODx before it leads me to EE. But considering MODx really is page-based, EE shines in other area’s, such as pages consisting of multiple pieces of content from multiple sources. ExpressionEngine does have the Structure-module for this (www.buildwithstructure.com, now also available at Devot-EE), but this is exactly what MODx is made for.
From what I can tell you’d be better of with EE indeed. EE has native membership-support (MODx does too, but it’s alot more complicated), but the driving factor in the decision in this case would be the dynamic “not page-related nature” of the site. As far as HTML-versions go: this doesn’t make any difference in the decision: both EE and MODx assume and output nothing that you haven’t told it too, so no predefined templates, code-chunks etc, this is all up to you.
Modules you might want to look into are CartThrob, Solspace User.
Fortune favours the brave, so I think I’ll bite the bullet and get my head into this CMS game! Cheers for the extra modules, like apps but for CMS, lol.
Fortune favours the brave, so I think I’ll bite the bullet and get my head into this CMS game! Cheers for the extra modules, like apps but for CMS, lol.
No problem if you need a hand with either CMS send me a PM, I’ll try to help whenever my schedule allows me to, have projects running in both CMSes at the moment.
There’s an awful lot of CMS out there but a few like MODx have drifted towards the top of the pile for good reason. If you’re expecting simply a free version of EE then you could be in for a shock but that’s not to say you shouldn’t invest in exploring MODx and adding it to your toolkit…
